FFS! This is just ridiculous! MUST READ - OPINIONS PLEASE

**James Deuce** · 17th February 2008, 08:27

Originally Posted by Jiminy

Ahem, pardon a non New Zealander here, but your comment implies that we have a choice at election time. Sure, there are a few choices, but I personally still struggle to see a GOOD choice to vote for.

Btw, when will New Zealand be a democracy and the people have a right of say that goes beyond a selection of short-sighted political parties? (Jiminy goes hiding

)

When you learn how to use MMP to your advantage. When Politics is viewed as a good line of honest work to get into. When good people start putting themselves forward and don't get shot down for being Maori, or rich, or gay, or an "immigrant". But you and they never will and you'll vote FPP back in given the first chance and remove even more choice.

STV would've been a better bet.

Now are you going to do something about it? Will you set fire to Crown property and break windows if the chap is convicted.

Or did the bleat in here give you the outlet you were looking for?

**Okey Dokey** · 17th February 2008, 08:42

When this law was still to be passed, we were assured that average kiwi moms and dads would not be prosecuted. That the law would only impact on serious cases of abuse etc etc. Like everyone else, the only cases I've heard about thus far involve parents trying to keep kids from becoming fatal traffic statistics, using mild rebukes such as an ear flick or arm grab.

Anyone surprised that the politicians have lied to the public yet again?

Or are they just so thick they don't know the consequences of the laws they write and pass?

I can't site the actual cases from memory, but I believe a couple kiddies have been beaten to death since this law came into force, so it hasn't actually worked at all IMHO.

**HRT** · 17th February 2008, 08:49

The kid deserved more than a flick on the ear by the sounds of it anyway. Wasn't there a couple of kids and one had just been hurt fairly badly, the other kid was being a little shit while the other one was being treated for injury so the dad flicked his ear and told him to bugger off?

As for saying the cops are only enforcing the laws made, surely (as bad as this sounds) they would have the choice to ignore something as stupid as this situation?

**Badger8** · 17th February 2008, 08:52

Originally Posted by pete376403

Why does everyone lame "auntie Helen" for this piece of shit legislation. Green MP Sue bradford owns this one. When the Green party come canvasing for your vote this year, let them know what you think of both bradford and the bill.
(and it's not really stopping kids from being abused to death, is it?)

Indeed, Bradford initiated and pushed it, but would never have got in without Uncle Helen and his cronies votin for it.
Dont get me started on those fuckin tree huggin hippies that call themselves the green party.

And of course this law wont stop kids getting the bash. The real bad stuff was illegal before, and didnt stop it happening. Even when they get brought up on charges, they all too often walk coz the family rallies around and noone talks despite the fact the THE KID IS DEAD!!!! WTF?!?!

All this legislation does is make criminals out of parents who are trying to bring their kids up to be human ebings who will function in society instead of the frickin little shits they're turning into nowadays.

**Badger8** · 17th February 2008, 08:55

Originally Posted by HRT

As for saying the cops are only enforcing the laws made, surely (as bad as this sounds) they would have the choice to ignore something as stupid as this situation?

Of course the cops have discretion in what they enforce. Otherwise there'd be a lot more of us without licenses

**ynot slow** · 17th February 2008, 08:58

Sue (I'm an angel) Bradford stated at the time the bill was put forward it was only going to effect the part of reasonable force excuse people used when beating kids,i.e slap ok,but belting with a hose,cane etc would not be tolerated.

It unfortunately is what happens with MMP,both parties have insefficient seats to govern,thus make allowances for those who will scratch their backs,i.e Jim (I'm not swapping parties cause I lost leadership,and shifting to labour stronghold seat) Anderton giving his parties(yeah right)vote in return for getting his NZ owned bank,although we have two NZ owned banks,TSB and PSIS.

I can't recall ever getting a hiding from my parents,yep a smack or two,my neighbour one day was being a shit when his mum asked him to do something,instead he sat outside playing cricket with us,his mum was pissed off with him.She picked up a wicket and threw it at him,hit him in his calf and as it had metal shaft on bottom,it stuck into his leg.This family were hard working,but man at the time could she swear(35yrs ago) if the kids pissed her off,other than that time,we never saw anything worse than the odd slap,certainly never severe beatings.Yep our life was sheltered compared to what could have been happening in other homes,each their own.

**cowboyz** · 17th February 2008, 09:18

pretty sure it simply falls into the "let people do whatever they want and worry about yourself. Cant stand all these people who think that they can tell others what to do. If they want to be unruly and anti socialable then that is their choice. If people want help they will ask for it." Basket.

Seems to be the concenous for alot round here........

**Jiminy** · 17th February 2008, 12:13

Originally Posted by Jim2

But you and they never will

Ahem, I do agree with that. I just sometimes miss a system where people can propose and oppose laws rather than just vote for political parties every three years. But, hey, you're right, I'm going to cowardly return to my bike instead of joining the political system.

**Livvy** · 17th February 2008, 13:33

It is incredibly stupid how far this is going, I'll agree. You can't reason with a three year old - sometimes smacking is the best choice of action so they don't do worse harm to themselves or others. Child abuse is disgusting and horrible, and I wish we had a better system in finding those who do abuse their children and punishing them in such a way that people will forever think twice, but some will always slip through the cracks.

We need to be able to teach children proper morals so they will grow up and influence the world in a better way - not letting them push shopping trollies repetatively into the backs of people's legs. If I'd done that as a kid I would have been smacked on the arse in public and I think that's great I was raised like that.

Anyway, something one of my friends told me, who has a kid of his own - never hit your child in anger. This case (of a guy flicking his kid around the ear) is much like one my friend repeated to me. A guy had been angry at his son for talking back and clipped him around the ear, not realising his son was off balance. The son slipped and fell backwards into a table, hitting the soft part of his skull and was killed.

Was that child abuse? No. But it was done in anger and therefore still wrong. But the guy was never sent to prison, even though it was technically manslaughter. But the judge, I think, had taken pity on him and sentenced him to home detention. The worst had already happened to the father - because of his actions he'd lost his son.

**Timaa** · 17th February 2008, 23:40

Originally Posted by Jim2

There were still organised Aborigine hunts in the 1960s.

The apology isn't for past wrongs.

The ear flick thing is old news. This isn't the first instance of people being prosecuted for disciplining children in public since the "Anti-Smacking" bill was passed, and as for the comments about the Police "choosing" to prosecute, when are you idiots (harsh, but for goodness sake people!) going to understand that the Police enforce laws that are passed by people you hand a mandate to at election time? They don't make them up on the spot, and in the instance of a criminal act they don't get to exercise a great deal of discretion, certainly nowhere near as much as for a traffic offense.

lol i dont vote, fuck this 'c(o)unt'rys govt. they are useless in my opinion. lol. they just sit and abuse each other then pass dumb ass bills and then ban people from watching them abuse each other. lol

**Timaa** · 17th February 2008, 23:50

there could be a whole bunch of ways to fix the laws in nz on this subject but nz cant afford to do studies and the like to prove it and america has better things to worry bout, fatness and such, ( not that that is better lol ) but still. when a young kid doesnt understand the word dont, a physical ( but reasonable) flick will tend to reinforce the tru meaning of the word. its like doing stuff for yourself not just being told about it. its just not the same unless you have that experience yourself and can associate feelings, emotions and words with the experience.

ive been hit twice ever by my parents and i did nothing about it, they apoligised like 2 hours later. and other than that ive had the wooden spoon and time out. but i rekon it was good for me as it set boundaries and expectations of me from a young age.

anyone got any links to an actual media story online sumwher? post please. !?
tim

**El Dopa** · 18th February 2008, 18:21

http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/n...ontent_id=5131

"It has emerged a Christchurch man who says he was charged after flicking his son's ear is [actually] accused of assaulting both of his children [in a separate incident or incidents].

Last month Jimmy Mason went public with his claims he was harassed by the police when he was spotted disciplining his son.

Police initially warned him, but later charged him with two counts of assault [for incidents unrelated to the 'ear-flicking incident]. In court this morning it was revealed the charges are in relation to both his sons, who are aged two and four."

Text in square brackets added by me because the reporter for telstraclear can't write - my understanding of what the situation actually is based on stuff I've read here and elsewhere.

So do you all want to calm the fuck down now?

**Unit:Me** · 18th February 2008, 18:28

Originally Posted by Timaa

apparently on the news a few nights ago a man is being taken to court after flicking his sons ear

as punishment for being rude.

Well I locked my three year old out side one night about 10pm because he was being rude, I surely hope they dont bring this law in to be retrospective, then all our kids could claim our money before we die, and make us watch them spend it (thank god I dont have any money).