Is it time we went nuclear?

[Matt Bleck]

Well there's talk of power shortages this winter..

http://stuff.co.nz/4409916a10.html

and it seems that no matter what options are put forward someone is always against it, we don't want dam's cause they wreck blah blah, we don't want wind farm's cause they look blah blah, you can't burn coal cause....

So what is really wrong with nuclear power generation?

[Dargor]

People are scared of the waste and dont know how to shoot it into the sun.

[YellowDog]

Wind Power = Good but can't provide enough.
Hydro = Great if you have loads of water.
Coal = Polution & environmental damage.
Nuclear = Cheap, Clean, Safe, Most economical.

Only problem, if we try and go nuclear, George Bush may bomb us to buggery and then behead Helen Clark!

[Zuki Bandit]

Nuclear energy is pure energy. IMO, its the little we know about it and the way we store it which makes it so bloody dangerous. I reckon the more we learn how to handle the stuff, all of our energy and fuel problems will be a thing of the past. I guess im opening myself up to a good old ear bashing for this but the whole clean green nuclear free thing is a bit stick your head in the sand like. There is this awesome power out there in unlimited amounts and all around us, why cant we use it?

[James Deuce]

How many times does this have to come up?

We don't use enough electricity to operate even one of the smallest Nuclear power plants you can buy.

It has nothing to do with danger, economy of operation or waste disposal (though this is glossed over rather too readily). Our lowest draw is at about 5:30am. We're pulling about 10kW. What the hell do you do with the rest of the electricity the smallest commercial reactor available at present, a 600MW Russian built device (that'll be safe)produces? They AREN"T economical if you have to shut them down and start them back up all the time, which I believe takes substantial amounts of time, more like days than seconds.

Plus our grid is a hideous hodge podge that bleeds energy and can only have certain high output stations on at a particular time. You can graduate the output of fossil fuel and hydro plants relatively easily. A 600MW nuclear generated output is just that. There's no rheostat to ramp it down to 10kW.

[skelstar]

I agree with Zuki ... looking forward to someone coming along that has knowledge in this area.

[James Deuce]

Wind Power = Good but can't provide enough.
Hydro = Great if you have loads of water.
Coal = Polution & environmental damage.
Nuclear = Cheap, Clean, Safe, Most economical.

Only problem, if we try and go nuclear, George Bush may bomb us to buggery and then behead Helen Clark!

Wind is NOT good. Wind turbines are hideous eyesores that generate visual and noise pollution and sometimes the wind stops blowing people.

[James Deuce]

I agree with Zuki ... looking forward to someone coming along that has knowledge in this area.

Jantar and K14 have blown this to bits repeatedly. You can't fit more energy into our grid than you can use.

NZ doesn't draw enough energy all the time to warrant a NUclear plant. We need a minimum of 30 million people and big manufacturing base to make use of a 2GW Nuclear plant, the smallest safe generator you would be realistically thinking about installing. The Russian made example I quoted above gets stuck in a concrete bunker and steam cooled, so if you have a water issue it digs a bigger hole. It isn't serviceable either so when the fuel runs out it is done.

[ZK-Awesome]

Wind is NOT good. Wind turbines are hideous eyesores that generate visual and noise pollution and sometimes the wind stops blowing people.

I don't get what's so ugly about wind farms, this looks nice to me:

As long as you don't get ones like these:

[The Pastor]

Wind Power = Good but can't provide enough.
Hydro = Great if you have loads of water.
Coal = Polution & environmental damage.
Nuclear = Cheap, Clean, Safe, Most economical.

Only problem, if we try and go nuclear, George Bush may bomb us to buggery and then behead Helen Clark!

modern coal plants are just as clean as nuclear. They treat the emmissons on site.

Coal = nuclear when you factor in cost/power out puts over the life span of the nuclear power plant.

[James Deuce]

Nuclear energy is pure energy. IMO, its the little we know about it and the way we store it which makes it so bloody dangerous. I reckon the more we learn how to handle the stuff, all of our energy and fuel problems will be a thing of the past. I guess im opening myself up to a good old ear bashing for this but the whole clean green nuclear free thing is a bit stick your head in the sand like. There is this awesome power out there in unlimited amounts and all around us, why cant we use it?

You know the difference between fission, fusion, and cold fusion? Fissile material is always unstable in a way that is chemically and radioactively damaging to living tissue. Fission is a chemical reaction created by assembling enough fissile material that its density increases causing the components (electrons and neutrons) of its atoms to release their energy violently. We're good at controlling this chemical reaction.

Fusion uses fissile materials to generate enough energy to fuse hydrogen and helium nuclei, but fusion reactions we are capable of generating require a deuterium-tritium fuel combination and aren't self sustaining like the Sun's hydrogen-helium fusion reaction is. The energy release by fusing these nuclei is an order of magnitude in the millions of times greater than banging lumps of Uranium or Plutonium together. It is an exothermic (releases more energy than went into it) reaction and releases the spare neutrons. If you want to make a hydrogen bomb really nasty you stick strontium 89 into it's make up. It becomes Strontium 90 by hoovering up spare neutrons and that stuff sticks around for a very long time, pumping out gamma rays and destroying tissue. Similarly Cobalt 59 will become Cobalt 60. Doesn't last as long but is more energetic.

Fission breaks the bonds of the components of an atom and release the energy contained therein. This reaction can be controlled by maintaining specific temperatures and providing certain quantities of fuel. Fusion releases the binding energy of the atomic nuclei. Controlling that force takes a shitload of doing. Beyond anything we're willing to try. There are theories and plans around using multiple hydrogen bombs to generate electricity. But they will remain plans until we have something better than concrete and metal to contain the force contained therein.

Cold fusion is magic.

[Jantar]

Nuclear power was discussed on this site as recently as 5 weeks ago, so I'm NOT going to repeat the reasons why nuclear isn't yet suitable for New Zealand. See http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=64316 .

As for wind: 10 days ago the Power Syatem in New Zealand faced its first Grid emergency of the year. Every available power station was generating to capacity, and even the Standby Whirinaki Station was on full load. Mid summer and there was nothing left. But the wind farms were generating zilch. There was simply no wind. The Waikato river was so hot that Huntly was on reduced output because of its Resource Consent Limits. Cook Straight Cable was at its limit because of insuffient North Island reserve. The Taranaki Combined Cycle station was shut down for planned maintenence.

The downside of wind generation is that can help supplement energy, but does not help with producing power. And I'm sure that motorcyclists Know the difference between energy and power.

[P38]

Well there's talk of power shortages this winter..

http://stuff.co.nz/4409916a10.html

and it seems that no matter what options are put forward someone is always against it, we don't want dam's cause they wreck blah blah, we don't want wind farm's cause they look blah blah, you can't burn coal cause....

So what is really wrong with nuclear power generation?

I'm lookin forward to Suzuki bringing out a Nuclear powered Cruiser

That way I can frag those Thieving Bastard Oil Companies too.

[skelstar]

Nuclear knowledge makes you grumpy, short and irritable, that much I've learned

[Zuki Bandit]

Nuclear knowledge makes you grumpy, short and irritable, that much I've learned

Yes indeedy!!!