Tax motorcycles and motor scooters off the road

[Bob]

I wonder if there are any statistics available regarding motorcycle accident rates in the USA. They don't have our cc restrictions for learners so far as I know (they can go straight to a 600cc I think or even bigger). It would be interesting to know whether they have greatly different accident rates among learner riders than here...I would guess that there's bugger all difference but coud be wrong of course

Oddly enough, there is something out at the moment, but that is a 20 year study of booze level to accident ratios...

US stats are never good ones to use - no, they don't have a 'learner limit' - but they also don't have any kind of law forcing you to wear protective kit such as helmets either in many states. So a US accident is more likely to be a fatal one.

In the UK, there is often reference to (numbers off the top of my head) a 15% increase in accident rates, comparing 1992 to 1980. But the 37% increase in the number of bikes on the road is usually ignored...

The EU thing about the 100bhp limit was a close run thing - as BM-GS said, if the bike lobby hadn't got it's act together in time, that could have been a real threat.

And we suffer other loonies like that - like the Dutch MP who put forward a serious proposal to ban bikes in Holland. There are still rumblings of "zero tolerance" in places like Sweden - in other words, ban bikes. And Switzerland recently tried to impliment an 80kmph limit on bikes!

Without our lobbying groups, I dread to think what might get through...

Back to that paper - it is sensationalism of the worst kind. It needs challenging with facts - which your department of transport should be able to provide. Do you have a bike lobbying group, such as our BMF, MAG? If so, I think someone needs to bring this to their attention and get them challenging it - and fast.

[Quasievil]

What about taxing the big / gas guzzing 4x4's off the road as well?

Nope not a good idea cause some of us have families and I would have a 4x4 over a Van anyday

[scumdog]

Have a look at the LTSA thread for the numbers for New Zealand. They aren't too flattering on riders, since the number of single vehical, rider at fault fatalitites alone is out of line with the number of bikes on the road.

Ahh! I was wondering when somebody was going to bring that up!
It's a myth that most m/c crashes are caused by Vovlo drivers or mums in their Remuera tractor, unfortunately most crashes are directly linked to the (non) riding abilities of the rider involved.

[scumdog]

BTW the thread "The Ultimate Solution" in General biker ravings looks somewhat familiar, or is it just me and my goldfish memory span?

[Bob]

Ahh! I was wondering when somebody was going to bring that up!
It's a myth that most m/c crashes are caused by Vovlo drivers or mums in their Remuera tractor, unfortunately most crashes are directly linked to the (non) riding abilities of the rider involved.

I recall some statistics from a major insurance broker called Carole Nash a few years back. In that they showed 67% of accidents involving bikes were a result of car drivers pulling out of side turnings. That said, the actual apportionment of blame is about 50/50 in accidents involving two parties.

Now... if you add up 50% of 67%, you get (gets out calculator...) 33.50% - add that to the 33% of accidents not involving another vehicle... and that is a heck of a lot of accidents where the biker has to take a fair amount/all the blame.

OK these are UK figures, but I'd guess the proportions aren't massively different in NZ.

(From personal experience - 4 times on the deck in 10 years - 3 were proved to be other parties fault, the other time I had no-one to blame but myself)

[avgas]

Nope not a good idea cause some of us have families and I would have a 4x4 over a Van anyday

Thats the sad side of things these days - 4wd has been allowed on to the road. Where it was never designed for that purpose (well according to the original Land Rover designer....who now drives a mini)
Next i think we should design trains that jump tracks to change course - so we dont have to have busses Or convert ride on mowers to be wof certified so that people can have cheap transport and a lawn mower

[avgas]

Also in reference to this topic, be prepared to become some kind of scapegoat. In political eyes, 220% of motorcyclists cause accidents involving a motorcyclist - 120% of that being car drivers
I say let all the law an abolising take place, then i can spray my bike matt black, and motorcycling will go underground
Something this good should be illegal

[Skyryder]

The answer to that load of codswallop is to ban cars. That would bring the road toll down as there would be none of the road to kill or maim us.

The reality of that diatribe is just a speil for the Korean car makers.

Skyryder

[Deano]

From my experience from accidents on the road it friggin middle aged women that are the cause so THEY should BE taxed OFF the road. Bloody beurocrats(sp)

Middle aged women should be friggin at home, not while driving.

The answer I got from an LTSA employee was that accidents involving other vehicle vs bike were about 50/50 in terms of fault.

[Skyryder]

Allow me! (courtesy of Denill via the 'ultimate solution' thread)
Article published in Silver Bullet
Email the Editor of the Australian Financial Review -numpties who published the article written by Alan Mitchell. I've just sent my thoughts to them reminding them of the public embarrasement that the NBR suffered after involvement with the Dick Hubbard smear campaign

just emailed this

Dear Sir/Madam.

If Alan Mitchell the writer of the article is serious about reducing the Australian road toll perhaps he should do some research into the causes of Motor bike related accidents. I could give some stats on this subject but as you know most statistics can be questioned so will not wast my time or yours.

May I suggest that if the writer is serious about reducing the Australian road toll he should advocate the taxing of all non commercial vehicles off the road. You do not have to be a maths wiz kid to understand the financial savings this would policy would accrue. Reduced pollution, energy costs not to mention insurance costs in all related fields, including medical bills both for the state and the individual etc. Such a simple solution remove the cars from the road and put everyone of two wheels.

(Personal name ) Skyryder

[ResidentAngel]

just emailed this

Dear Sir/Madam.

If Alan Mitchell the writer of the article is serious about reducing the Australian road toll perhaps he should do some research into the causes of Motor bike related accidents. I could give some stats on this subject but as you know most statistics can be questioned so will not wast my time or yours.

May I suggest that if the writer is serious about reducing the Australian road toll he should advocate the taxing of all non commercial vehicles off the road. You do not have to be a maths wiz kid to understand the financial savings this would policy would accrue. Reduced pollution, energy costs not to mention insurance costs in all related fields, including medical bills both for the state and the individual etc. Such a simple solution remove the cars from the road and put everyone of two wheels.

(Personal name ) Skyryder

and I just emailed this:


It is with some concern as a born-again
post-40's-female-motorcycle-rider that I read Alan Mitchell's diatribe
against motorcycles in your supposedly informative newspaper. It would
be nice if Alan had referenced the sources of his information but of
course, that would have required that he had done some research.
Assuming that motorcyclists were the source of their own misfortunes
regarding accidents would be one thing, but to equate the motorcycle
statistics with the concept of 'fault' is a bad argument - a high
quality financial newpaper should know the difference between lies and
statistics, but in this case, it would appear that analysis got lost
in prejudice and mis-information.

Perhaps Alan Mitcell would like to do some real research, and find out
who causes most of the motorcycle accidents, instead of assuming that
removing motorcycles will remove the causes of accident.
Alternatively, to be even handed, perhaps Alan Mitchell could suggest
that because riding horses is such a high risk activity, that horses
should be taxed out of existence as well, and then, perhaps he should
also suggest that diving gear could be taxed out of existence as well.
And then, as there is an almost 100% correlation between humans
walking, and eventual death, we should tax shoes out of existence.

Or, perhaps it might just be a good idea to suggest that Alan Mitchell
might put his brain into gear before he puts pen to paper ..

[Coldkiwi]

nice email residentangel!

[SpankMe]

I can't believe this shit.

A quote from the article.

"The authorities may be acting under the impression that bikes and scooters are a socially desirable form of transport: they use little petrol, cause no congestion, take up hardly any parking space, and generally make few demands on the environment.

But of course that kind of calculus grossly understates the true cost imposed by motorcycle riders on the community."

and some more of his bullshit.

"History has shown that governments can save people's lives simply by deterring them from getting on motorcycles."

[Coyote]

Aussie Dickhead

Statistics from studies in NSW and Victoria show that motorcycle riders and their pillion passengers are many times more likely to be killed or injured than other motorists.

No bloody wonder. Cars plow through us cause 'they didn't see you'

[SPman]

I can't believe this shit.


and some more of his bullshit.

"History has shown that governments can save people's lives simply by deterring them from getting on motorcycles."

History has shown, that twats spouting this crap,have the IQ of a retarded gnat, and the political clout of a bull elephant's penis!

Unfortunately, everything they say is taken to heart by our own incompetents, the LTSA!