Career in IT? Never too late?

**avgas** · 14th March 2008, 15:08

Originally Posted by Jim2

Age and experience

Often assumed combined - but morons (of all ages) keep making my job harder......and im more lenient with the younger ones. As i hope the older ones are with me.
What pisses me off is the mentality of some who think cos they have something in a CV they think their shit dont stink. Whether its a degree, or on the flip side of the coin 20+ years experience.
One thing i have picked up is if your not smart without your CV, the reality is you don't know shit. Surprising how many CV's i've seen that show and IQ of 150, when you meet them you think that figure is 10 times overrated.
How do they not get themselves killed????

**marioc** · 14th March 2008, 15:27

"If you say "computers ARE my hobby" - then forget IT as a career - reality is substantially different from playing"

Guess I am the exception to this rule,gaming was and still is one of my big hobbies and I would have never even thought about IT as a career without it.

**pzkpfw** · 14th March 2008, 15:59

Don't listen to Jim2 - he's an engineer and us programmers give them our stinky jobs, because we are too busy with our super models and super yachts.

At 40, if your "friend" wants to go IT, think about becomming a tester.

That's the best way to use years of non-IT experience.

At high levels testing pays pretty well too.

But testing sucks.

**gav** · 14th March 2008, 16:10

OK, a wide and varied response! Great to see, well, my background, I started in local Hospital Board administration, roles mainly in clerical, purchasing and cashier. At 21, and keen to jump up the ladder, I soon discovered that my next targeted positions were held by people only about 10 years older than me, married, kids, mortaged etc and they weren't going elsewhere. All the promise that I had shown had been rewarded with pay increments, that meant I'd reached about as far as I was going to go. Ended up leaving and taking up a position in a Chartered Accountants office basically working as a accountant, own portfolio of smaller clients etc but without doing any exams. There for 3 years and then redundancy after the market flattened out. Worked in motorcycle shops doing parts and accessories, then couple of sole charge store type roles, back into motor trade admin roles, before seven years running a busy landscape supplies yard in a manager. Then seduced into a workshop supervisor role where I was promised the world but frankly none of which i saw and now I'm on the counter at good old Repco! Most have a low opinion of the place but its not a bad place to work, just for some reason the level of pay that retail attracts is a joke. it turns out I started fairly high up the payscale, which is great, expect when I applied for a 2IC position, I'd be on a monthly salary, required to work Saturdays (currently I'm Mon - Fri) but I'd be on the same money but no time and a half etc would apply! Umm, no thanks, even the Branch Manager admitted he got barely more than me, but he did get a car!
So why IT then? Well, at the majority of the positions I've held, most of the time they didnt have dedicated IT staff ,and it was pretty much the role I fell into. Setting up new computers and hardware, setting up and running new programs, getting the best out of the existing systems and introducing new ideas and ways etc. Whenever a problem needed sorting I'd be the guy talking to the tech heads at the other end! I also seemed to have an extraordinary amount of patience and seemed to be able to train new staff in the wonderful ways of the local setup. A couple of previous bosses have suggested that I should be working for the tech guys as I seemed to know more then them, nah just more familiar with what we were trying to do, and probably better at explaining it in terms that the owners or other staff could understand.
So, thats me (ummm hypothetically ...

)
So is it worth following it up? What would I prefer? Hell, customer support or service would be a great start, money wise, its gotta be at least what I'm currently on.
And if you've made it to the end thanks alot!

**Pussy** · 14th March 2008, 17:32

Originally Posted by Jim2

Don't do it. Get a job working in a gas station. If you want to be humiliated, over worked, under paid, treated like a retard and abused by colleagues, employers, and clients alike the IT is for you.

You've just very accurately described the lot of an ag pilot!!

**LardEmbargo** · 14th March 2008, 18:06

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

At 40, if your "friend" wants to go IT, think about becoming a tester. That's the best way to use years of non-IT experience.

Yeah I was just thinking of suggesting that. I got into IT as a tester. My lack of a relevant qualification (e.g. in Comp Sci) was actually a positive thing cos you need to look at software from the point of view of what it's supposed to do, not how it works. Draw on your expectations of software as a consumer and so on.

Although that doesn't mean just anyone will be any good at it. Sure, there are approaches and so on that you can learn, but good testers also have a knack for it that (having been involved in trying to teach testing to people) I suspect you either have or you don't.

Anyway, the consultancy I used to work for hired at least one guy (maybe 45 ish?) into what was essentially a junior, one-year-after-graduating position, while I was there. He's done really well, is well-thought-of and I'd've happily worked inna team with him again. Mostly cos he was a nice guy, was keen and interested, good at communicating and prepared to learn. He did have to put up with (as mentioned higher up) the automatic assumption from clients that he was senior in experience as well as in years, but we worked around that pretty much.

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

At high levels testing pays pretty well too.

Yeah you can do ok.

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

But testing sucks.

And yeah, it can suck. Testers get pretty cynical quite quickly. Because testing's so dependent on how together the rest of the stages of software development are, how much it sucks is also a fair barometer of how clueless, lazy or fuckstick-incompetent the rest of the organisation is. But testing can also be kind of satisfying - in some small way you get to help make sure the software does what someone actually wanted it to. All together now. Aaah isn't that sweet :)

Oh yeah, the other thing. If it turns out you are any good at it, you probably have a job for life. The supply of shit software is not likely to dry up anytime soon :/

**bobsmith** · 14th March 2008, 18:51

Originally Posted by Pussy

You've just very accurately described the lot of an ag pilot!!

I thought he described the job of a PILOT full stop... I for one have no regrets about deciding not to pursue flying as a career after all the money I've spent on it. Especially when I look at the friends I trained with and what they're getting paid as pilots now....

**Fatjim** · 14th March 2008, 19:38

Never in the field of human endevour has so little been achieved by so many doing virtually nothing and getting paid shit loads to do it.

Or...

find a job you love and never work a day in your life again.... or find a job in IT and never work a day in your life again and get paid shit loads as well.

**That Guy** · 14th March 2008, 20:26

IF you have good people skills and are a competitive type, try sales.

You can earn more than anyone else in the company several times over. To be good at it requires long term relationship building and sticking by your customers no matter what, especially when things turn to shite, which in the IT world, happens often.

Takes a thick skin too 'cause there are short term box droppers out there who just sell FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) and sometimes they get business, which is frustrating as all hell. Luckily, in the end, honesty and integrity wins and you end up with fantastic realtionships with your customers, and doing business becomes good fun.

You don't need any formal skills; you can rely on your team of experts bring the technical knowledge (as long as the co. you work for doesn't need you to be the technical expert). Just remember to include your team in the glory when you win first time out if you ever want to win again!

By the way, if you don't bring technical knowledge to the customer's table, you still have to bring something that they value, for example: knowledge of their business and how you can help them, making the co. you represent perform to the standards they require, opening doors for them into new opportunites etc.

**James Deuce** · 14th March 2008, 20:46

Originally Posted by That Guy

IF you have good people skills and are a competitive type, try sales.

You can earn more than anyone else in the company several times over. To be good at it requires long term relationship building and sticking by your customers no matter what, especially when things turn to shite, which in the IT world, happens often.

Takes a thick skin too 'cause there are short term box droppers out there who just sell FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) and sometimes they get business, which is frustrating as all hell. Luckily, in the end, honesty and integrity wins and you end up with fantastic realtionships with your customers, and doing business becomes good fun.

You don't need any formal skills; you can rely on your team of experts bring the technical knowledge (as long as the co. you work for doesn't need you to be the technical expert). Just remember to include your team in the glory when you win first time out if you ever want to win again!

By the way, if you don't bring technical knowledge to the customer's table, you still have to bring something that they value, for example: knowledge of their business and how you can help them, making the co. you represent perform to the standards they require, opening doors for them into new opportunites etc.

Bahahahahaha!

Blue Sky indeed.

I haven't met a "Sales" person that wouldn't fuck me over to save his/her skin yet. Service Delivery Manager, Salesperson, call it what you will, integrity only extends to the people paying his/her salary and commission. If you're actually providing a service to a salesperson you are nothing but a convenient scapegoat. I wouldn't piss on the person next door to an IT sales person on fire, for fear that a tiny drop of urine may ease some of immolated scumbag's excruciating agony

IT sales people have their own hell. They deserve every second of it. They cheat their customers and bag their workers, without exception or conscience.

**Big Dave** · 14th March 2008, 20:49

Originally Posted by Jim2

Bahahahahaha!

Blue Sky indeed.

I haven't met a "Sales" person that wouldn't fuck me over to save his/her skin yet. Service Delivery Manager, Salesperson, call it what you will, integrity only extends to the people paying his/her salary and commission. If you're actually providing a service to a salesperson you are nothing but a convenient scapegoat. I wouldn't piss on the person next door to an IT sales person on fire, for fear that a tiny drop of urine may ease some of immolated scumbag's excruciating agony.

IT sales people have their own hell. They deserve every second of it. They cheat their customers and bag their workers.

I commend to you and sales staff a United Arts training fillum featuring John Cleese entitled - 'Who sold you this then?'

Alternately - burn them.