Has Motorcycling New Zealand lost all relevance?

[scott411]

What if it was run as a business? You know, listen to your customers, advertise, sponsors........

if am sure if you put your name up for Paul Stewarts Job, he would have no probs handing it over, i bet his family and his employer would love you for it as well,

and you could not pay me enough money to be CEO of MNZ, the road racers can't get on with each other (this thread proves it) the mxers are at each other just as bad, the speedway bikes think the rest of motorcycling have abanoned them, we can never agree with each other, and i can't imagine trying to get us all to play together nicely,

i suggest going to a MNZ conference, its an eye opener, i have been to about 5 of them, i have come to the conclusion that their are very few right answers, only lots of opinions, and no way to prove any of them,

my current thinking is that mnz should downsize and stop trying to be so professional, just get cheaper to join, and let promotors run the major champioonships (rr, mx sx etc) i think we are trying to be bigger than we are, but i have not always thought this, and i may jsut change my mind again,

[scott411]

Why is it that even Winter series meets have larger numbers than the Nationals? If only we could get 1/2 of them to do the Nats, it would be far better to watch.

because they are cheaper to enter, you get more racing, you do not have to turn up friday open practice to be competive, and to be honest prob a whole lot more fun to race in,

[Hellraiser]

Now i have had first hand experance on how much Motorcycling NZ wants to keep Motards restriced to their own class.

A while back i asked some questions about weather i could enter a Aprilia SXV into the pro twins, now most people on this site said no because it's a motard, some of the others told me to contact Motorcycling NZ which i did.

I contacted Motorcycling NZ who told me the best person to talk to was Paul Stewart so i contacted paul and this is where it got interesting.

I explained to him that i was looking at entering an SXV in the pro twins i told him it was 550 cc Vtwin he said that as long as it complied with the rest of the rules i shouldn't have any problems, I told him that i couldn't find it on the homologated models list, which i was told it wasn't a big issue just a matter of applying to have it added. So i thought i was in with a grin .... lol

But alas no ............... once i pointed out that the SXV is a motard i was told that i was not allowed to enter it in the Pro Twins when i asked why i was told that motards have their own class, when i pointed out that it does not say any where in the rules that motards are excluded, he told me it was a safety issue so i will not be allowed to enter it.

So i pointed out to him that the SXV has more HP than a stock SV650 has better brakes, has better suspension, has a 180/55/17 rear and goes around corners using the same lines as a SV650, and his reply ....... ?

IT IS A MOTARD there fore it is banned.

So again i have asked him to show me the rule excluding it .......... that was 3 weeks ago and i have still not had a reply even though i have emailed him every week since.

So what do i do?

[Goblin]

if am sure if you put your name up for Paul Stewarts Job, he would have no probs handing it over, i bet his family and his employer would love you for it as well,

and you could not pay me enough money to be CEO of MNZ, the road racers can't get on with each other (this thread proves it) the mxers are at each other just as bad, the speedway bikes think the rest of motorcycling have abanoned them, we can never agree with each other, and i can't imagine trying to get us all to play together nicely,

i suggest going to a MNZ conference, its an eye opener, i have been to about 5 of them, i have come to the conclusion that their are very few right answers, only lots of opinions, and no way to prove any of them,

my current thinking is that mnz should downsize and stop trying to be so professional, just get cheaper to join, and let promotors run the major champioonships (rr, mx sx etc) i think we are trying to be bigger than we are, but i have not always thought this, and i may jsut change my mind again,

I just have to quote your post so everyone can read it again. I think you're onto it!

[Goblin]

So what do i do?

You bend over and take it up the poop shute! You've been told!

See nobody knows what the rules are and apparently they can be changed on a whim, without rhyme or reason, and the riders who actually do the racing dont have a say. I have no idea how MNZ should be run but I can see a shitload of unhappy racers.

[HDTboy]

my current thinking is that mnz should downsize and stop trying to be so professional, just get cheaper to join, and let promotors run the major champioonships (rr, mx sx etc) i think we are trying to be bigger than we are, but i have not always thought this, and i may jsut change my mind again,

I concur.
Look at what Avesco did for v8supercars(tm) they're a company selling entertainment to spectators under licence.

On a smaller scale, look at Springs Promotions, again, a company selling entertainment under licence.

[roadracingoldfart]

the point is to leave the fukkin rules alone so that diversity is encouraged but now they're so fucked they have to go backwards to be relevant again

and if you've been awake you'd have noticed that i'd never fit in with MNZ as long as it acts as it has for the past few decades

just say duh!

Are you saying that you will fit in anywhere ??? at all !!!

What a stupid meaningless argument you are fronting.
The rules are placed by MNZ at the request of the members effected and thats it , just suck it man.

From what i saw at Wanganui last year then BEARS is made up of a couple of V-Twins and a bunch of Motards that still have energy from thier main class.
Maybee BEARS needs to look at its own door step and stop the influx of trail bikes into its midst. Hell you say it happened before then thats the real threat now , isnt it ??. They only get in because of the country of origin, not any other reason , now thats a sepritist class if ever i heard one.

Ahh well my 2 cents worth for you to rubbish.

[roadracingoldfart]

if you're such a racing god we should all be bowing down to you, get out there on one of the many bikes that DO qualify for whatever class you intend to dessimate, and prove it bitch.

Got fiddy in my pocket, says me and both my brothers can not just beat your old ass, but damn well embarass you.

Id put another bit on the table Drew lol we can take odds and watch the profit roll with its foot out in the corners.

[Kickaha]

See nobody knows what the rules are and apparently they can be changed on a whim, without rhyme or reason, and the riders who actually do the racing dont have a say. I have no idea how MNZ should be run but I can see a shitload of unhappy racers.

The rules are up on the MNZ website and are quite easy to find for anyone who has a genuine interest in them, there is a procedure for getting them changed which can be done through your club (don't ask me what it is I've never needed to do it)

[Deano]

a raptor is just a jappa in wop clothes.

harden the fuck up yourself and let all the bikes in ya pansy

So your issue is with 'Jappas' then. Make you mind up.

And if the motarders are such great riders, why aren't they content to race against each other in a motard class, instead of entering F3 ?

The only reason I ever got beaten by them on my 400 was due to HP not ability.

And no I did not sign any petition.

[Robert Taylor]

Are you saying that you will fit in anywhere ??? at all !!!

What a stupid meaningless argument you are fronting.
The rules are placed by MNZ at the request of the members effected and thats it , just suck it man.

From what i saw at Wanganui last year then BEARS is made up of a couple of V-Twins and a bunch of Motards that still have energy from thier main class.
Maybee BEARS needs to look at its own door step and stop the influx of trail bikes into its midst. Hell you say it happened before then thats the real threat now , isnt it ??. They only get in because of the country of origin, not any other reason , now thats a sepritist class if ever i heard one.

Ahh well my 2 cents worth for you to rubbish.

Amen to that and also Scotts take. And it certainly doesnt help being so obnoxious and scathing of people who dont share the same opinion.

[codgyoleracer]

(QUOTE) But the fact remains, there is a Motard class, you can race them. In their class. So no one's confined to any bikes. You wanna race a ZXR400, race one. Against other 400s. Wanna race a 'Tard? Do so, against other tards. Where exactly is the problem again?[/QUOTE] Whitetrash

Hi Jimmy, I assume what he is trying to get at is that the rules are getting a little to specific for a "formula class" which is theoretically a class for "almost do what ya want " machine-wise. (although you could argue that the 2stroke rules in the class now are a little out of touch)

As an example - if "Naked Bikes" or "Touring Bikes" started racing in Superbikes should they be banned ? - as their style would be quite different....... I recall a certain Hayabusa doing not to badly in the right hands...........
I dont give a rats arse where motorcycles originate from as far as class racing & bears is about as racist as bike racing gets - however the bears racing did have a pretty wide spread of "qualifying machines" & appeared to drag in a lot of new riders for the sheer fun of being able to get out & race on a track.
As I said before - other than the width of the bars - i dont see a problem with motard style bikes in the F3 class.

In reality though the motards do appear to have enough entrants to run there own class at many meetings anyway (especially the big meetings & street meetings) , & if this is the case & the guys cant be bothered changing there handle height/width to qualify for F3 - then so be it.

Can someone tell me- if you run a clip on bar low enough on the fork on motard bike - does this alone qualify it for F3 - or is it the "style of the bike" as well that is listed as not allowed ?

Cheers
Glen

[GaZBur]

(QUOTE) ....

Can someone tell me- if you run a clip on bar low enough on the fork on motard bike - does this alone qualify it for F3 - or is it the "style of the bike" as well that is listed as not allowed ?

Cheers
Glen

From The MNZ Rulebook

F-3 rule extract...
B: Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from
entering any Formula 3 event.
Any includes all events whether they are MNZ titled events or not, this is for safety
reasons.

It must not be amended or altered in anyway by the use of Supplementary Reuglations.
SuperMotard rule extract

34-2-3 Machines:
Must be of an original OEM off road origin. If a Super Motard model is made then a
purpose built off road bike must also be available from the manufacturer.

34-5 Frames
Must be of original OEM dirt bike origin without alteration to steering head and swinging

arm pivot.


So I guess that means No, but I am no lawyer.

[Goblin]

The rules are up on the MNZ website and are quite easy to find for anyone who has a genuine interest in them, there is a procedure for getting them changed which can be done through your club (don't ask me what it is I've never needed to do it)

Yeah they're easy to find in the MNZ Manual Of Motorcycle Sport too but they're too open to interpretation, written in a way that you'd need to be a lawyer to understand some of it. And what's the point in having these rules when they can be changed without notice to the riders? Like the Wanganui Farce.
Grid positions will be determined by one of the following two methods: a, Where a reliable lap scoring/timing system is available, lap times recorded in practice will determine grid positions for Championship races.
b, Where a lap scoring/timing system is not available, grid positions will be determined, for the first race of every year, on the official results of the previous years Championship finishing top ten place getters, or at the discretion of the Road Race Commission Representative. The grids for the following Championship races will be allocated on the accumulated points as at the start of that race, or at the discretion of the Road Race Commission Representative.
Now I do understand that bit but how can they change that rule to allow other racers to take the front row grid positions when they didnt even do the practice? And who was the Representative and who knew where to find him/her?

[scott411]

From The MNZ Rulebook

F-3 rule extract...
B: Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from
entering any Formula 3 event.
Any includes all events whether they are MNZ titled events or not, this is for safety
reasons.

It must not be amended or altered in anyway by the use of Supplementary Reuglations.
SuperMotard rule extract

34-2-3 Machines:
Must be of an original OEM off road origin. If a Super Motard model is made then a
purpose built off road bike must also be available from the manufacturer.

34-5 Frames
Must be of original OEM dirt bike origin without alteration to steering head and swinging

arm pivot.


So I guess that means No, but I am no lawyer.

you have looked at 2 parts of the rule book, and matched up the rules to suit,

the super motard section is only relevent to super motord events where thier is a dirt section, it does not apply to the supermotard class at a road race event, apart from wanganui, these do not apply to any other road race meeting,

the f3 rules are in the road race section that pertain to road racing only, the rule that excludes motards from that class is the 900mm maximum handlebar hieght,

F3 is a great class, it is the only entry level class left, and i think the addition of a pro twin class as part of it is a good thing, i also think the introduction of a super singles (gp bikes using 450mx doner frames and engine) class with in it would be awesome as well, the bikes are all with in a similar speed and could provide a good spectical in racing each other, this is seen in the car racing with the production series, 3 different classes racing in one race,