Has Motorcycling New Zealand lost all relevance?

[scott411]

i agree with you, one of hte reasons i do not road race much is the fact i only get 3 very short races, and if i can not enter 2 classes i do not bother going,

i have had a few discussions with people over the hatred of motards, and i do not understand it, it is the biggest and fastest growing class, and poeple seem to want the guys to go away, the comment 'take your dirt bike to a motocross' is the classic one, its not that they are euro hating, its motard hating, and its just bullshit, i would think they are trying to get more people to come, not discourage the ones they already have thier,

[CHOPPA]

by all means get more guys into it, im tying to sus one out myself! as long as they are not racing with me on my road bike cause i know how i would race a motard and with roadbikes thats not cool, actually what would be better and I would be happy to help out is organise some decent motard events with big jumps and dirt sections. LOL road bikes welcome!

[blueblade]

I could be wrong but I think some of the problem with the motards is not so much the bikes but the riders themselves. Quite a few of these guys come from strong MX backgrounds where they are used to block passes, clashing handlebars and all sorts of other agressive riding techniques. They are also much more used to crashing than your average road racer. Some of them have transferred this more agressive style of riding from the MX track to the road race track.
Its not so much that they use different lines, its just that they can if a situation calls for it.
My own experience round Taupo is that the fast line on my motard was virtually the same as the fast line on any of my previous road bikes.
Toby Somers basically confirmed this in a recent interview on Karcher Pitlane when he said the whole sliding and backing into the corner thing was slower, opened the door for an inside pass, and was generally more for showing off in front of your mates.
I well remember a track day at Taupo a couple of years ago when I was a newbie on motards. I was hit twice in the same lap by another Motarder. Once on the back wheel and once on the front. This guy was a reasonably well known MX rider who had just recently gotten into motards and he saw nothing wrong with this type of behaviour. And this was just a track day - not even a race!!
Ive had heaps of fun on Motards but I think some of the guys may have spoilt it for the rest by inconsiderate and in some cases downright dangerous riding leading to general discontent among the traditional road race style riders

[svr]

Amen! - I'm pleased a motarder said this first and not a `pussy F3 rider'. In one single race I saw the following: a stoppie on the racing line for no apparant reason, 2 riders looking at each other into a corner and then both missing the corner into the gravel trap, 2 bikes turning around and going the wrong way on the track to reform the start grid after a red flag, etc. etc. You get banged up enough with `normal racing' without this shit to worry about.

[GSVR]

Well done MNZ for introducing rules that keep those horrible dirt bikes out of the real racebike classes. I really think the rules should have gone a bit further and banned them completely from any roadrace meetings.

Reason I say this is whenever there is a big dirt bike meeting on the same day as the roadrace meet the motard numbers are at least halved if any turn up at all so its obvious where their true passion is.

When they do decide to turn up its just another class and the amount of racing for the other classes is deminished.

Remove the Motard class and replace it with ProTwin as it will become obvious soon that F3 plus ProTwin numbers are just getting too big for them to stay in one class together. Glad the motards aren't there anymore or the problem would be huge.

(pt)

[idleidolidyll]

Thanks for the recent comments.

They confirm what I always knew: it's about childishness, jealousy and petty mindedness not really about safety.

None of the last few posts addressed the reason given for the ban; high handlebars.
Instead they focused on style (slding like GP riders have done since Kenny Roberts, us and them (MX vs Road; a joke given that many of our best road racers started in MX) and silliness (a full motard class with 50% say of dirt is a good idea but making that the only class they could enter is ridiculous)

Thanks guys, you've shown all just how petty the rule change was

[blueblade]

My understanding is that this whole Motard debate most certainly began as a safety issue and I tried (obviously unsuccessfully) to give you a different perspective on that safety issue in my previous post.
How much time have you spent on a racetrack recently in amongst a gaggle of motards. I dont think there is any way you can compare what happens now with current motards to what Kenny Roberts etc used to do on their old muscle bikes. Its a totally different scene.
i have no particular axe to grind. Ive owned and loved upright nakeds (cb1300, Aprillia Tuono) and done plenty of laps on both at track days over past 4 years. I also own one of your beloved KTM 690's. But I have also seen up close and personal how dangerous a number (not all) of motard riders can be and have been over recent years on the race track.
Try and step back for a minute and see both sides of the issue.

PS I certainly dont agree with those that would like to see Motards banned altogether from road race meetings. They are awesome bikes to ride and the majority of spectators certainly seem to enjoy them as a spectacle.

[scott411]

Reason I say this is whenever there is a big dirt bike meeting on the same day as the roadrace meet the motard numbers are at least halved if any turn up at all so its obvious where their true passion is.

When they do decide to turn up its just another class and the amount of racing for the other classes is deminished.

Remove the Motard class and replace it with ProTwin as it will become obvious soon that F3 plus ProTwin numbers are just getting too big for them to stay in one class together. Glad the motards aren't there anymore or the problem would be huge.

(pt)

great idea, lets get rid of 30-60 riders out of a meeting, and replace it wiht a class that can not survive on its own at the moment, and that fits in with f3 at the moment anyway,

never mind the fact that the club will not be able to afford to put on the meeting,

what is it that you actaully hate about motard bikes so much? this its not a real road bike stuff is crap, is it really that offensive to you that their are 30 people riding bikes around having fun, !!!!

this is the sort of backward thinking shit that will keep road racing down,

[speedracerjimmy]

i cant understand why road guys bag the crap out of motards.those boys ride hard and are mean to watch.i can understand the clash in riding styles when they are on the track together tho.but thats no reason to make them feel unwanted at race meetings.id love to get one they and race it they would be fun as hell.

[scott411]

I could be wrong but I think some of the problem with the motards is not so much the bikes but the riders themselves. Quite a few of these guys come from strong MX backgrounds where they are used to block passes, clashing handlebars and all sorts of other agressive riding techniques. They are also much more used to crashing than your average road racer. Some of them have transferred this more agressive style of riding from the MX track to the road race track.

fair point, if you are a top level motocrosser you get used to touching bars, and crashing, it becomes second nature,

this is not a new thing, most of NZ's top road racers came from MX backgrounds, if you read Aaron Slights book it tells how he took his YZ125 out for a blast around manfield and got hooked on road racing, now some in here guys would stop that from happening,

you have seen Scotty Moir and Paul Brown step up from motards to 600's this year, and riders will keep doing it as well, it is an ideal entry class as alot of these bikes are around, and it is getting cheaper to kit them for motard

Tony Rees, Sam Smith, Simon Crafer - they all came form motocross, learnt how to race on the dirt, just like the aussies and US riders have done as well,

[k14]

great idea, lets get rid of 30-60 riders out of a meeting, and replace it wiht a class that can not survive on its own at the moment, and that fits in with f3 at the moment anyway,

never mind the fact that the club will not be able to afford to put on the meeting,

what is it that you actaully hate about motard bikes so much? this its not a real road bike stuff is crap, is it really that offensive to you that their are 30 people riding bikes around having fun, !!!!

this is the sort of backward thinking shit that will keep road racing down,

lol, i think you missed the little (pt) at the bottom???

[GSVR]

great idea, lets get rid of 30-60 riders out of a meeting, and replace it wiht a class that can not survive on its own at the moment, and that fits in with f3 at the moment anyway,

PMCC may get 30-60 but AMC doesn't run Motards and the Vic Club the most ever for a meeting the last 2 years has been 17 and one meeting the number was 5. A whole 3 races for just 5 bikes!

never mind the fact that the club will not be able to afford to put on the meeting,

Most Clubs have record entries at the moment and if they can't survive I say someones creaming the profit from each meeting..

what is it that you actaully hate about motard bikes so much? this its not a real road bike stuff is crap, is it really that offensive to you that their are 30 people riding bikes around having fun, !!!!

I love motards 9 times out of 10 when you fall off one you just pick it up and ride again. You can ride like a idiot with no responsablity. Some riders are actually intimidated by the way they are ridden.


this is the sort of backward thinking shit that will keep road racing down,
No change then...

Hell I don't give a shit I don't even race anymore its an industry not a sport.
(pt)

[svr]

Thanks for the recent comments.

They confirm what I always knew: it's about childishness, jealousy and petty mindedness not really about safety.

None of the last few posts addressed the reason given for the ban; high handlebars.
Instead they focused on style (slding like GP riders have done since Kenny Roberts, us and them (MX vs Road; a joke given that many of our best road racers started in MX) and silliness (a full motard class with 50% say of dirt is a good idea but making that the only class they could enter is ridiculous)

Thanks guys, you've shown all just how petty the rule change was

Nah mate, I think blueblade has been pretty balanced on the topic - just pointing out that the behaviour of motarders hasnt helped the safety thing. GSVR goes too far - I think its great to see motards in their own class doing their thing! Its actually pretty funny to watch the mid-packers trying to drift too - some dont even use the front brake. Someone should unbolt their rear brakes and tape their feet to the pegs - they'd go 3 secs faster and be a lot safer.
If you're going to bring KR into this he would have banned them - he only wanted to see gp bikes road racing ferchrissakes! he only slid the rear ( a few inches) and never put his foot down - and he was an ex flat tracker.
MX is the perfect talent pool in NZ because its the most common motorbike riding / racing available to kids - not because its motox per se. Plenty of world class riders never raced motox - but they all rode bikes when they were young.

[GaZBur]

I actually don't see what the arguement is!
Motards are here and you can guarantee they are gonna stay!
Why -
they are cheap racing
they bounce well when you bin
thet are fun to ride
they are exciting to watch
they are not likely to go out of style with the bike riding public.

At large open tracks they are no danger to others because they will take racing lines if the track is a fast one.
On tight street type circuits with 90 degree corners the lines are radically different and it would be carnage to run them with other bike types.
Ask anyone who went to Wyndham what was the greatest spectacle and they will tell you it was the Motards by a huge margin. Spectator just love em!
So what if they can't run with F3, they have enough numbers to run by themselves anyway don't they?? So the F3 rules really aren't unreasonable as they can't say at some tracks motards can run with F3 and can't at others.
I am surprised to hear about low numbers up nth, there were 44 at Wyndham and down here at least I predict motard numbers will keep increasing too.

[GSVR]

I actually don't see what the arguement is!
Motards are here and you can guarantee they are gonna stay!
Why -
they are cheap racing
they bounce well when you bin
thet are fun to ride
they are exciting to watch
they are not likely to go out of style with the bike riding public.

At large open tracks they are no danger to others because they will take racing lines if the track is a fast one.
On tight street type circuits with 90 degree corners the lines are radically different and it would be carnage to run them with other bike types.
Ask anyone who went to Wyndham what was the greatest spectacle and they will tell you it was the Motards by a huge margin. Spectator just love em!
So what if they can't run with F3, they have enough numbers to run by themselves anyway don't they?? So the F3 rules really aren't unreasonable as they can't say at some tracks motards can run with F3 and can't at others.
I am surprised to hear about low numbers up nth, there were 44 at Wyndham and down here at least I predict motard numbers will keep increasing too.

Totally agree.

I think the main gripe for the Motard riders is they can't cross enter into F3 at Club level. This puts them in the same boat as Streetstock and F1 riders in the fact that they only get half the racing of someone on an F2 bike that can cross enter into F1 for example.

The way F1 is going I can see it getting combined with F2 at Club level.

Just looking at Taupo PMCC meetings (Motard central for the north island) they have 2 classes and almost all the riders are on 450s and cross enter these.

Maybe they just want to enter F3 to display how much faster they are than the slower riders in F3. The Motard class has some very talented riders.