Crash scene -what do you do?

[jrandom]

Fucking fantastic news. Both the rider and passenger on the bike are alive.
Both outa ICU.

Glad to hear it.

Heard in the news that it was a bike vs car, so I guess they ended up going under a vehicle coming the other way.

They're lucky to be alive, and yes, it sounds like you almost certainly saved the rider's life.

Not that you'll ever get a medal for it, but nonetheless, that's something I'd be proud to know that I'd done.

Onya Frosty.

[FROSTY:Me]

like my dad said ages ago --dya want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

[yungatart]

I always go by this neumonic D R A B C

D= Danger... is there any danger that I could get done for this.

R= Response.. if no response, its safe to take their wallet

A= Airway.. if caught with the wallet it might be a good time to get a ticket with British Airways.

B= Breathing.. If they're not breathing perform mouth to mouth.. if they are breathing it could be a homo trying to get some man on man action. (insert fist to testicles)

C= Circulation.. make sure the notes from his wallet get back into circulation as soon as possible.

Glad you aren't stationed here then.
A flippant reply from a professional...but then it is Speedie, I guess I should not expect more...

[MSTRS:Me]

Nothing humorous about that without a smiley to go with it.

[ManDownUnder]

Helmet off ,head supported he started breathing again on his own--kinda explosive first breath

Hey Tony,

One of the first times I met you I remember clearly you telling me the reason for staying involved in motorcycling after year of seeing your mates die around you in racing circles... one by one by one...

The reason you gave me then was simple - to try and keep some of them alive.

Congrats. You're probably the one that made a difference. Walk tall mate.

[yungatart]

It is just a humerous reply. If you can't see that then too bad. I have answered these types of questions too many times to count. Do a search.

You have no idea how serious I take my job, and what I go through at motorcycle accident scenes. Think back to Pukekohe a month back. Then think again before making such remarks and red reps. Next time you're dealing with deceased motorcyclists give me a call...then we might be on the same page. Until then I am more than qualified to deal with tragic events in a humourus nature, thats what we do.

As a trained nurse, believe me, I know what your job entails. I have been first on the scene of numerous accidents (as a private citizen) and have rendered assistance countless times. And yes, after the job is done, I get emotional and upset. Pity your sense of humour isn't funny, eh? This was a serious question and should not IMHO have been treated so flippantly by you.Your response was not funny, especially with the lack of smilies.
If you couldn't treat it seriously, then maybe you should have not replied at all.
I do recall some of your sensible posts, but along with that I seem to recall a few that are in extremely poor taste, not to mention, in at least one instance, downright unprofessional.

Smilies added..

Pity they weren't there to start with.
I stand by what I posted earlier and my rep comment that went with it.

[ManDownUnder]

I always go by this neumonic D R A B C

Gotta admit I read this and simply saw the voice of experience wrapped in a bit of grim humour. Obviously a painful area, and I know some deal with it differently to others. I'd hate to see a shit fight break out for that sake.

In a similar vain if you ever wanted the world's biggest collection of baby jokes - just ask the Stratford Mortician. Very very dark sense of humour that helps him avoid sleepless nights.

Janet - total respect for you speaking your mind too. As I said - I'd hate to see you guys go tooth and nail over what appears to be different ways of coping with stress. That is what it looks like from the outside and the last couple of posts from you both.

... butting out...

[FROSTY:Me]

Hey folks please don't argue . I can see as MDU said clearly you deal with it differently.
I suspect if Speedie diddnt use black humour he'd be a blubbering mess.
Me I just get angry.

[Mikkel]

It is just a humerous reply. If you can't see that then too bad. I have answered these types of questions too many times to count. Do a search.

Yes, you'll rarely find people with a more dark sense of humour than the professionals that deal with in-your-face life and death situations on a daily basis.

Albeit, it's not all of them that partake in it - some have a more introvert nature.

It's just a survival mechanism and while it may not appeal to everyone I think that for some it is a necessary way to vent.

Problem about the way this thread was started is that it was in no way apparent that the scene, as FROSTY described it, was anything more than a hypothetical scenario.
You'll find that several piss-takes are found on the first couple of pages before it was evident that this was a real-life situation. Yes, one of these piss-takes is my own (and yes, I also forgot to add smileys, thinking that the irony was obvious.).

[candor]

Never mind safeguarding your bike - think of yourself first.

CPR to a prolly much lacerated crash victim entails risk of fatal blood bourne viruses - mainly hepatitis C, which is common and gives a shorter life expectancy than HIV for many sufferers(treatments not as good as for HIV see). Hep C can be a stigma and drain on quality of life too.

Use protection. The mask through which to do CPR breathing prolly is the one essential of a first aid kit if you had to carry one item. We always got issued them on first aid refreshers required as part of my job. I'd keep them on me a few weks to be honest then somehow loose them. Still - I'd recommend - can proly buy at chemist cheap.

Hepatitis C is a blood borne RNA virus. Hepatitis C is a diverse disease of significant clinical, personal, and public health importance. Infection with hepatitis C can cause ill health and other serious conditions such as cirrhosis, liver failure and hepatocellular carcinoma.

Pegasus say -
It is estimated that in the year 2000 there were 25,200 people in New Zealand with hepatitis C virus (HCV) antibodies. This represents approximately 1% of the New Zealand adult population aged 20 years and above. It was estimated that there were at least 1200 cases of hepatitis C related cirrhosis in the year 2000. HCV infection is expected to increase by approximately 25 new infections per week in New Zealand. It is also estimated that the numbers of New Zealanders with hepatitis C antibodies will increase by 50% over the next 10 years.

Intravenous drug users represent the most at risk group with 15% per annum becoming infected. The number of HCV related deaths in New Zealand will more than double by 2010

[Mikkel]

Never mind safeguarding your bike - think of yourself first.

CPR to a prolly much lacerated crash victim entails risk of fatal blood bourne viruses - mainly hepatitis C, which is common and gives a shorter life expectancy than HIV for many sufferers(treatments not as good as for HIV see). Hep C can be a stigma and drain on quality of life too.

Use protection. The mask through which to do CPR breathing prolly is the one essential of a first aid kit if you had to carry one item. We always got issued them on first aid refreshers required as part of my job. I'd keep them on me a few weks to be honest then somehow loose them. Still - I'd recommend - can proly buy at chemist cheap.

So how big a percentage of kiwis suffer from Hepatitis C?

I mean, I'd be more worried about catching Ebola than Hep. C - the prognosis is much worse

[discotex]

Never mind safeguarding your bike - think of yourself first.
...

Hep C can be a stigma and drain on quality of life too.

A stigma which you are promoting.

The odds of the person you're saving

a) having a blood borne disease
and
b) you having an open wound to get infected from

are probably the same as winning lotto. It's much harder to get infected than just getting a drop of blood on your skin.

The average person has a much higher chance of getting HIV through unprotected sex and Hep C from getting a tattoo.


Not giving someone CPR because you don't happen to have a mask handy (or creating hysteria about having to carry one at all times) is fucking sad. Not saving someone's life for billion to one odds you might catch something is selfish to the extreme.

[Dutchee]

Speedie, i had to double check to see if it was who I thought it was who'd posted it. It seemed out of character for you.
But, by this stage, we have established the hypothetical question (with the flippant remarks at the beginning), was a question after the fact of an accident. We have also established that both the rider and pillion are alive and out of ICU.
how old were the rider & pillion? I'm guessing young. You been young? I've worn some dumbass things as a pillion and when I used to ride scooters.
I am still one of the scum of the earth that wears jeans when riding. I also wear leathers, depending on what the ride is. I have come off, I have not had skin grafts. I have worn overtrou where when I came off, they were fine. The jeans underneath and my skin wasn't overly, but nothing serious (slow dump, shouldn't have even hurt).
One of my colleagues used to laugh at me coming into work on my scooter, wearing a jacket, jeans & gloves. He questioned me about the gloves and I commented I couldn't afford time off work with injured hands. He'd been riding for years and had never thought of it. I'd been down the road enough times to know gravel rash on the hands ain't fun.
Glad the rider & pillion are okay.
Speedie, thanks for the job you do, I couldn't do it. I'm one of these folk that turns into a blubbering mess (or would inappropriately faint - I hate the sight of blood).

[candor]

A stigma which you are promoting.

The odds of the person you're saving

a) having a blood borne disease
and, b) you having an open wound to get infected from
are probably the same as winning lotto.

The average person has a much higher chance of getting HIV through unprotected sex and Hep C from getting a tattoo.

Not giving someone CPR because you don't happen to have a mask handy (or creating hysteria about having to carry one at all times) is fucking sad. Not saving someone's life for billion to one odds you might catch something is selfish to the extreme.

Just checked in so excuse late reply. Can't agree that stigma is promoted by the post. Tho mighta been better to highlight as you did that this is not going to be a factor most cases. I just think it is best to be as safe as possible - and most responsible. In no way did I suggest people should not do CPR on others. It is possible to have a win win and no worries -

?Billion to one odds of transmission you say - now thats going to the extreme -if it were not a fair concern they why did our qualified CPR instructors always cover this and recommend masks?

And can you back up your odds comparisons?
I'd doubt it - as the numbers of tattoos done would allow good ballpark estimates of odds of catching a bbv - but the infrequency of CPR would make sure no good stats can be gathered on this possible mode of transmission.

I'd agree it is not a huge risk but its a lot higher than billion to one - for one the main risk group (iv users) is at greater risk of serious crashing than most of those outside the risk group. At about double the risk (IMMORTAL study). Some risk of dealing with someone with a bbv is therefore there. A risk that can be eliminated is worth considering.

If you are in a crash with someone with a person with a bbv as your driver or passenger and you must CPR there is every likelihood you will have some facial lacerations that could see your risk go well up

Sheesh - withholding info that could prevent a serious illness in a rescuer... just because a disease may have stigma is also sad in my book. Its like saying because most hiv transmission was between male gays the heteros ought not be given any info - lest it cause hysteria and too much safe sex!

When you have had a needle stick injury and months of worry as a result of attending to someones healthcare without employing sufficient self care techniques, I think maybe you'll relate to the safety first principle. It cant hurt anyone, so whats the issue .

[scumdog]

Scenario. -Its late at night. You come across a bike accident where there are two people lyiing on the ground.
Crash scene has been secured.
One person is lying face down not moving the other is rolling around a bit and making groaning noise. There are no trained medical people around.
What would you do?

What do you mean 'secured'?? - that bit needs some clarification.