Fork cartridges...Ohlins vs Traxxion

[Tony.OK]

Okay, the spring rate supplied is NOT correct for those particular cartridges for our tracks, add $259.90. The rebound pistons and shimming is also not correct and not up to the settings we have refined here, add $800 for parts and labour. The internal top out springs will not be the longer type that we have found work better off our tight corner exits, add $60 Etc....
Improvement is a term of relativity and you may very well be happy but it will fall far short of what is possible and will therefore limit your ultimate lap times, moreover with that spring rate and set up you are likely to screw front tyres.
The local distributor supplies with all the latest specs dialed to our own track conditions! There is also a funny perception that the product needs reshimming for every track. In the case of the top riders we are there to help push the envelope for them all the time but also we have been ( largely through our own interest ) trying new settings all the time. This has a flow through effect to the non distributor riders who have purchased kit off us, ask Kyle Key about the upgrade we did to his forks at Pukekohe, at no charge.
If you had checked with me first I would have told you all this. Same answers, cold clinical technical truth.

Ok thankyou Robert,
This was why I posted this thread,to check 1st,I haven't brought anything yet.

[Robert Taylor]

I knew this would turn pear shaped

Ok at the mo my lap times at Taupo are low 1:36's with S/corser pro's not slicks
Motor is stock,want to get as fast as I can before going down that path
I know I can knock still more time off,am braking too early because of exc dive
Have played with oil levels,preload etc etc
I don't know where those times put me against experienced racers,but its getting quickish I think.

Heck no reason to knock the wind out of your sails but if you had checked with me first I could have given you the pre-knowledge that nothing is ever as it seems! And those deals out of the States fall into that category, this is a little different to buying clothing etc.
As I am linked straight into Ohlins Sweden Technical database and in fact do development work for them I can provide totally accurate information
PROUDLY, I am an engineer first and foremost before being a salesman and to that degree you will get totally candid answers. I think also there is a danger via these forums of disseminating way too much bad advice / ''information''.

[Robert Taylor]

Ok thankyou Robert,
This was why I posted this thread,to check 1st,I haven't brought anything yet.

Well thats good news, especially for you! As I have just eluded to forums are not always such a good way of airing such matters because all too often people with only very limited knowledge will say their piece. It then eats time re-justifying ones standpoint. You know how to get hold of me and maybe you should as I believe I may have a solution at reasonable cost.

[Tony.OK]

Ok enough said.

[HDTboy]

The Ohlins stuff is a lot easier to work on, actually does have a wider response range and the springs are an absolute delight to change and change quickly.

The Ohlins forks are absolutely wonderful to work with. Twas funny to see how big a bite Robert took with my earlier comment though.

[gixerracer]

I knew this would turn pear shaped

Ok at the mo my lap times at Taupo are low 1:36's with S/corser pro's not slicks
Motor is stock,want to get as fast as I can before going down that path
I know I can knock still more time off,am braking too early because of exc dive
Have played with oil levels,preload etc etc
I don't know where those times put me against experienced racers,but its getting quickish I think.

As a reasonably experienced racer I think I can vouch for the ohlins product over the AK20 as I have reced on both even won a championship on the AK20 in my 600 and they are pretty good but the new ohlins is another step again. As for silly MR POOS comment about the lap record at manfeild last year at a 1.06 I think he may find that this was ther first metting on ohlins forks and that may be the reason why there results were crap down south because they didnt have them? Poos plese correct me if im wrong
The ak20 may well be worth spending money on and getting them revalved but if you can sell them and put the money towards buying ohlins from robert thath would be the best way.
We were doing 1.36/37 round Taupo on the the track using the shitty little bit going around the old hairpin etc I would think 1.30 or high 20's woulod be the pace on the new track.

[Robert Taylor]

As a reasonably experienced racer I think I can vouch for the ohlins product over the AK20 as I have reced on both even won a championship on the AK20 in my 600 and they are pretty good but the new ohlins is another step again. As for silly MR POOS comment about the lap record at manfeild last year at a 1.06 I think he may find that this was ther first metting on ohlins forks and that may be the reason why there results were crap down south because they didnt have them? Poos plese correct me if im wrong
The ak20 may well be worth spending money on and getting them revalved but if you can sell them and put the money towards buying ohlins from robert thath would be the best way.
We were doing 1.36/37 round Taupo on the the track using the shitty little bit going around the old hairpin etc I would think 1.30 or high 20's woulod be the pace on the new track.

Actually thanks for that clarification Craig, Seato was also using Ohlins front for the second time ( first time out was at Paeroa ) at Manfield. And those were the old settings.

[Robert Taylor]

The Ohlins forks are absolutely wonderful to work with. Twas funny to see how big a bite Robert took with my earlier comment though.

Youd have been dissappointed if I didnt bite!

[Tony.OK]

We were doing 1.36/37 round Taupo on the the track using the shitty little bit going around the old hairpin etc I would think 1.30 or high 20's woulod be the pace on the new track.

Hahaa at least I had one day of feeling good about where I'm at..........thanks Craig lol.

[HDTboy]

Youd have been dissappointed if I didnt bite!

You're right, but it's like fishing with dynamite

[Shaun]

Hahaa at least I had one day of feeling good about where I'm at..........thanks Craig lol.

Keep fealing good mate, you are doing very well, and it does take time, to get even close to Craig S and other fast riders

[gixerracer]

Hahaa at least I had one day of feeling good about where I'm at..........thanks Craig lol.

Dont get me wrong mate I wasnt trying to burst your bubble or anything I think you are doing a great job I was just trying to give my thoughts as there can be some pretty bad advice handed around about suspension in this country what ever you buy make sure it comes with back up as nothing is ever very good straight out the box generally. Roberts going to hate me for this but i still remember when I finally got my first after market rear shock which was Ohlins and I couldnt wait to get out on it and when I did I hated it the standard shock I used the year before that we had put some heavy oil in was way better but after spending time pulling it apart changing sprinigs etc etc it was bloddy great so that is why it is important to buy something that you can quality service and information on. Hope it all helps.
Cheers

[Robert Taylor]

Dont get me wrong mate I wasnt trying to burst your bubble or anything I think you are doing a great job I was just trying to give my thoughts as there can be some pretty bad advice handed around about suspension in this country what ever you buy make sure it comes with back up as nothing is ever very good straight out the box generally. Roberts going to hate me for this but i still remember when I finally got my first after market rear shock which was Ohlins and I couldnt wait to get out on it and when I did I hated it the standard shock I used the year before that we had put some heavy oil in was way better but after spending time pulling it apart changing sprinigs etc etc it was bloddy great so that is why it is important to buy something that you can quality service and information on. Hope it all helps.
Cheers

No I dont hate you, you have reinforced the obvious. There are too many people selling product with woefully inadequate product knowledge and backup. That is nothing less than immoral.

[cowpoos]

Actually thanks for that clarification Craig, Seato was also using Ohlins front for the second time .

As for silly MR POOS comment about the lap record at manfeild last year at a 1.06 I think he may find that this was ther first metting on ohlins forks and that may be the reason why there results were crap down south because they didnt have them? Poos plese correct me if im wrong

I'm wrong... would have swore I saw ak20 sticker on the bikes forks though!!


anyway...

I know what you guys...are saying.
I was merely pointing out that...does the up and coming racer need to have the best and latest equipment to improve his lap times?? does getting the cheque book out the sensible way of doing it always?? I'm not debating which product is better..or if newer more evolved product isn't better...I have no doubt its better...companys in the legue of Ohlins et al are not usually in the habbit of realeasing inferior products!! and yes your point of brake dive..well valid..I have same problem with my ak20's..try heavy brake..end up dam near looping the fucking thing..crank up low speed compression or spring or combinations of both or fork oil high changes etc..just leads to other issuse's!! but it still didn't haulter myself consitantly dropping laptimes at every race meeting..and learning..sure I would have love a better setup..but hey..I only had a limited budget to race with..so it was within that I raced.

but meh...I really don't think anyone is getting my megure little point/opinion.

[Robert Taylor]

I'm wrong... would have swore I saw ak20 sticker on the bikes forks though!!


anyway...

I know what you guys...are saying.
I was merely pointing out that...does the up and coming racer need to have the best and latest equipment to improve his lap times?? does getting the cheque book out the sensible way of doing it always?? I'm not debating which product is better..or if newer more evolved product isn't better...I have no doubt its better...companys in the legue of Ohlins et al are not usually in the habbit of realeasing inferior products!! and yes you point of brake dive..well valid..I have same problem with my ak20's..try heavy brake..end up dam near looping the fucking thing..crank up low speed compression or spring or combinations of both or fork oil high changes etc..just leads to other issuse's!! but it still didn't haulter myself consitantly dropping laptimes at every race meeting..and learning..sure I would have love a better setup..but hey..I only had a limited budget to race with..so it was within that I raced.

but meh...I really don't think anyhone is getting might megure little point/opinion.

1 ) That is because either the team probably lacked the discipline to have the correct stickers or you confused it with say Scotty Charltons bike. The Ohlins front fork cartridge and rear TTX36 combo in Seatos bike was clearly working though, against the next nearest guy, his own team mate Scotty Charlton running AK20 front / old type Ohlins rear. Before Seato started to dramatically tire due to the debilitating effects of his shoulder injury ( from the practice crash ) he had basically the length of the pit straight lead on Scotty. So to ''poo poo'' an earlier statement of yours that .4 or so of a second per lap improvement is not much....well it accumulates over a race distance.
As for stickers one shouldnt always believe what one sees...Peter Brock ran Mobil 1 stickers / livery on his cars for years and peddled the stuff on television, but he certainly didnt actually use the dodgy stuff!
2 ) To coin an old phrase Ive had more AK20s and then Ohlins FGK apart than many people have had hot dinners. Its very clear which is the much better piece of kit. The ''blowing through its stroke'' problem starts with the checkplate midvalve ''allowing the horse to bolt'' and is in no way helped by the size of ports in the base compression pistons. If you increase the preload on the valving stack or increase the overall stiffness of the stack you will to a degree get rid of the brake dive problem but the flipside is the low speed compression damping becomes way overfirm giving a very harsh fork. What I am saying is that the base components do not allow for that to be fixed. Playing with spring rates and oil level to control bottoming is really controlling an end event as a band aid, the real problem occurs at the start of stroke ( hydraulically ) and then through the stroke ( hydraulically ) The ''mid and high speed ''slope'' of the damping graph is too shallow to ''catch'' such movement.

Actually we can ( thinking about it ) make a dramatic improvement to these cartridges by fitting our old faithful Ohlins 20mm pistons or a Race Tech bending shim stack midvalve / rebound piston matched to a Race Tech G2R base piston with a large diameter but still bending shadowing shim.....

The goalposts keep moving and I think that in as many ways as possible we should be tenacious enough to not get left behind by the rest of the developed world.

Poos your round next time!!!!!