Fork cartridges...Ohlins vs Traxxion

[GSVR]

there are so many factors that cause so many issues...that robert doesn't have the time to write you a 1,000,000 word eassay that probally only just scratche's the surface on the probability of the situations that he has come accross in his career let alone what other tracks roads and surfaces around the world bring to light!

But are Dunlops really better than Pirellis or Conti' or is it just the guy using them has better suspension or is perhaps a better rider on the day?

Or should that be Bridgestone vs Michelin

Like is it better to have average suspension and great tyres or average tyres and great suspension?

[Robert Taylor]

But are Dunlops really better than Pirellis or Conti' or is it just the guy using them has better suspension or is perhaps a better rider on the day?

Or should that be Bridgestone vs Michelin

Like is it better to have average suspension and great tyres or average tyres and great suspension?

What about great suspension, great tyres and great rider, isnt that where most racers strive to be at? At present the Dunlop N-Tecs seem to be a touch better but in real terms I dont think the Pirellis are too far off. Continental also make a good tyre and the guys are certainly providing excellent, KNOWLEDGABLE back up.

Tyres are a bit like suspension, its also very much about full and proper backup and on my radar screen there is only ( a self plug! ) one complete and comprehensive service available in NZ.

Weve seen ''dumbing down'' through our education system courtesy of the ''bitch from belsen'' I really hope this little gem of social engineering doesnt permeate its way into NZ road racing.

[GSVR]

What about great suspension, great tyres and great rider, isnt that where most racers strive to be at? At present the Dunlop N-Tecs seem to be a touch better but in real terms I dont think the Pirellis are too far off. Continental also make a good tyre and the guys are certainly providing excellent, KNOWLEDGABLE back up.

Tyres are a bit like suspension, its also very much about full and proper backup and on my radar screen there is only ( a self plug! ) one complete and comprehensive service available in NZ.

Weve seen ''dumbing down'' through our education system courtesy of the ''bitch from belsen'' I really hope this little gem of social engineering doesnt permeate its way into NZ road racing.

I really shouldn't reply to this with you slagging off my Aunty Hellen.

So I wonder whats Rossi's choice if he had one. Maybe the writing was on the wall for him when he couldn't match Stoner so tyres was a good excuse.
Theres alot to be said for a two bike raceteam where you can test stuff properly and compare changes to on machine against the other. And if a problem comes along if its happening to both bikes its alot easier to isolate. Bit like Americas Cup.

BTW you didn't answer the question but gave the answer I knew you would.

So your answer might have to be interpreted as "above average tyres and above average but not great suspension."

[Robert Taylor]

I really shouldn't reply to this with you slagging off my Aunty Hellen.

So I wonder whats Rossi's choice if he had one. Maybe the writing was on the wall for him when he couldn't match Stoner so tyres was a good excuse.
Theres alot to be said for a two bike raceteam where you can test stuff properly and compare changes to on machine against the other. And if a problem comes along if its happening to both bikes its alot easier to isolate. Bit like Americas Cup.

BTW you didn't answer the question but gave the answer I knew you would.

So your answer might have to be interpreted as "above average tyres and above average but not great suspension."

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[svr]

Slow sat nite so I tread this thread for entertainment - thanks guys even better than watching pro wrestling!
Geez Gary you ask some frustrating questions - RT has incredible patience.
Two points:
1. I dont like seeing `safety' coupled with `grip' or ultimate performance because there is no simple correspondence - often the low grip motorcycle is safer to ride at it's performance limit (which is the job of the racer) than one with higher grip - its the feedback that matters.
2. with regards to buying suspension products locally, it's just another `commons tragedy' unfortunately, whereby the individual perceives personal advantage ($$ savings) and acts rationally (remote sourcing) to the real long-term cost of the collective interest (local resourcing i.e. RT, Gremlin).
We wouldnt be living in the age of global capitalism now would we?

[speedpro]

1. I dont like seeing `safety' coupled with `grip' or ultimate performance because there is no simple correspondence - often the low grip motorcycle is safer to ride at it's performance limit (which is the job of the racer) than one with higher grip - its the feedback that matters.
2. with regards to buying suspension products locally, it's just another `commons tragedy' unfortunately, whereby the individual perceives personal advantage ($$ savings) and acts rationally (remote sourcing) to the real long-term cost of the collective interest (local resourcing i.e. RT, Gremlin).
We wouldnt be living in the age of global capitalism now would we?

If this isn't a troll then you have missed some pretty basic motorcycling education.
1. Well obviously with less grip you will be going slower at the limit and as we all know - "speed kills", I saw it on TV. According to you, riding a bike with a 20yr old Cheng Shin ribbed front would be safer than with say a new soft Pirelli. I'm willing to sacrifice my bucket to see "YOU" test that one. I recall that the only feedback from crap tyres was regular and instant loss of traction. Compared to say TT100GP2s which would slide heaps before you landed on your head.
2. Forget the collective interest for a moment. What about the actual "cost-of-ownership", ie what it costs to purchase and all the other costs to get it where it actually does the job. Purchasing from a local source the majority of costs are included. Such things as optimising settings and components and the invaluable ability to make a more or less local call for a bit of one-on-one advice.

I agree on the collective interest bit as well though. I always buy local - clothes, boots, John Bull for instance.

[Pussy]

One huge advantage of Ohlins over Traxxion.... RT gave me a different set of springs to try in the 750 yesterday, it took me about 15 minutes maximum to change them this arvo, VERY easy job with the Ohlins cartridges

[svr]

If this isn't a troll then you have missed some pretty basic motorcycling education.
1. According to you, riding a bike with a 20yr old Cheng Shin ribbed front would be safer than with say a new soft Pirelli.

No that's actually the opposite of the logical point I tried to make i.e that you simply cannot equate grip with safety - a (decent) racer is always going to ride at the limit of available grip, whether that's a `knife-edge' or a comfortable situation is the safety issue - it only matters how fast you're going if you crash.
When SBK introduced pirellis the riders could comfortably smoke both tyres(?) in the corners and high sides all but disappeared (even before traction control) because they now had low grip / high feedback compared to previous higher grip / lower feedback situation of Michelin.

And crashing on 20yr ribbed tyres has nothing to do with physics - Its just God punishing you for taking the piss.

[pritch]

- Its just God punishing you for taking the piss.

Now there's a gem. Have bling

[Robert Taylor]

One huge advantage of Ohlins over traxxion.... RT gave me a different set of springs to try in the 750 yesterday, it took me about 15 minutes maximum to change them this arvo, VERY easy job with the Ohlins cartriges

In a race track situtaion the ability to make changes very quickly is paramount. Ohlins cartridges have their own top cap which together with the holding adaptor for the spring is designed to facilitate such quick changes.
We have managed several times to change springs in under 5 minutes.
Different tracks can require different springs because each and every track places its own peculiar dynamics on the bike.
Cartridges that still retain the standard top cap are frankly as much of a pain in the butt as with the oem cartridges. What this all too often means is it can be so intimidating to do so ( and time inhibitive ) the rider and crew will just not bother and then race on springs that are not quite right.
The little bit extra you pay for Ohlins pays dividends in this and other respects

[Shaun]

In a race track situtaion the ability to make changes very quickly is paramount. Ohlins cartridges have their own top cap which together with the holding adaptor for the spring is designed to facilitate such quick changes.
We have managed several times to change springs in under 5 minutes.
Different tracks can require different springs because each and every track places its own peculiar dynamics on the bike.
Cartridges that still retain the standard top cap are frankly as much of a pain in the butt as with the oem cartridges. What this all too often means is it can be so intimidating to do so ( and time inhibitive ) the rider and crew will just not bother and then race on springs that are not quite right.
The little bit extra you pay for Ohlins pays dividends in this and other respects

Of Course None of this rellivent to ROAD Riders, Racers Only

[Robert Taylor]

Of Course None of this rellivent to ROAD Riders, Racers Only

I disagree, in as much as its still intimidating, time consuming and more costly in labour to change fork springs with the oem system and those that mimic it.

[Tony.OK]

Showa's aren't too bad,I can get the top off and springs out in about 10 min,once you know how its not too hard.

[Robert Taylor]

Showa's aren't too bad,I can get the top off and springs out in about 10 min,once you know how its not too hard.

Im actually talking 5 minutes for the whole job, removal, instal and set. That is a BIG difference in time. Ohlins looked at the whole top cap thing, if you get the chance to see how its actually done with their racing cartridges you will be more than impressed.

[k14]

Can you retro fit ohlins caps to oem forks? Would be very handy on the RS. Takes at least 30 mins to change the springs on that. Quite a monotous process and something I tend to shy away from at the track. Being able to do it in 5 mins with (buy the sounds) one or two spanners sounds very appetising.