Need a new wagon- any recomendations

[TonyB]

Yes, sad but true- at some stage we must all spend precious bike money on silly things like cars for the family
As this is about the only place I can think of where I have access to the opinions of 1500+ people I thought I'd seek said opinions from you guys.

Basically, it has to be a wagon, it has to be fairly big, it has to have a 5 speed box- no autos allowed by decree of wife, it needs to have a bit of grunt, it must have a petrol engine, it must be a car (not a bloody great 4 wheel drive Landcruiser etc) and I'd like four wheel drive. I'm thinking Toyota Caldina, Nissan Stagea or Subaru Legacy- I like the look of the Mitsi's but I've heard and seen things that make me nervous about buying one. From what I've seen down here in Chch the there aren't many 5 speed Caldina's or Stagea's about, but there are plenty of 5 speed Legacy's. My concern with the Legacy's is fuel consumption- everyone seems to say they drink the gas. Of course the boy in me wants a nice Legacy GT twin turbo, and there happens to be a car yard down here that has been sold and has a few going cheap, plus a couple of 25T's.

SOOOoooo, does anyone here own a Legacy GT or any other kind? Any ideas how many k's you get to the litre?
Any recomendations on whats good to go for will be appreciated.
Cheers
Tony

[vifferman]

Yup, Legacys (Legacies?!?) drink gas, and they can also be very hard to insure (depending on model). Good car though...

[Quasievil]

4wd generally use 10% more fule than 2 wd, for obvious reasons, as well as they go through tryes quicker, and are generally higher maintenance by default.

I would look at a Legnum wagon or a Subaru 250t wagon, and it would take alot to talk me out of a subaru, you just cant beat them perfect car !!
thats my 2 cents worth

[Devil]

as well as they go through tryes quicker

I would be disagreeing with you there. My VR4 tyres are lasting plenty longer than my old 300ZX tyres. Then again... the VR4 spends a little less time sideways than the Z did

Can you give us a price range? If you're going legacy the pre '96 models can be a little dodgy from what ive heard. Mitsi's 5 speed Invecs-II tiptronic is a great gearbox, I just wouldnt want one with lots of k's on it.

[vifferman]

I would look at a Legnum wagon or a Subaru 250t wagon, and it would take alot to talk me out of a subaru, you just cant beat them perfect car !!
thats my 2 cents worth

"Legnum" sounds like a kind of vegetable.
And Mitsubishis suck big time. And for those naysayers - next time you're following a smokey car on the road, most times it will be a Mitsubishi (or else a 323/Laser, 626/Telstar). Mitsubishis rings tend to let oil past as the kms get up, as do the valve guides on those other horrible cars I mentioned {shudder}.

[Quasievil]

I would be disagreeing with you there. My VR4 tyres are lasting plenty longer than my old 300ZX tyres. Then again... the VR4 spends a little less time sideways than the Z did

Can you give us a price range? If you're going legacy the pre '96 models can be a little dodgy from what ive heard. Mitsi's 5 speed Invecs-II tiptronic is a great gearbox, I just wouldnt want one with lots of k's on it.

No problem disagreeing but I think you just "floored" your arguement by yourself

its a fact 4wd use more rubber as obviously you have power going through 4 wheels as opposed to two, hence on two wheel drive cars the driving wheels wear out quicker than the non driving wheels right ?
on your bike the rear trye wears out 2/1 over the front right.
Same concept with a 4wd

[Quasievil]

"Legnum" sounds like a kind of vegetable.
And Mitsubishis suck big time. And for those naysayers - next time you're following a smokey car on the road, most times it will be a Mitsubishi (or else a 323/Laser, 626/Telstar). Mitsubishis rings tend to let oil past as the kms get up, as do the valve guides on those other horrible cars I mentioned {shudder}.

Ive had 3 Mitsubishis as company cars over the years and have certainly noticed they leak a tiny amount of oil, but I wouldnt say they suck big time, I have done an average of 150,000 kms on each car with Nil issues. none blew smoke. Certainly the older ones may have but not the 1998 + years

[kerryg]

I would be disagreeing with you there. My VR4 tyres are lasting plenty longer than my old 300ZX tyres. Then again... the VR4 spends a little less time sideways than the Z did

Can you give us a price range? If you're going legacy the pre '96 models can be a little dodgy from what ive heard. Mitsi's 5 speed Invecs-II tiptronic is a great gearbox, I just wouldnt want one with lots of k's on it.

I've got a 94 NZ-new Legacy (nothing fancy, no turbo or AWD etc ) with 150000kms on it and it has been a great car. Never let me down in the 100000kms I've done in it escept for when the battery crapped out. Uses no oil between changes. Decent to drive. Will probably still be going well in another 100000 the way its going. They are a bit hungry though, especially if you're heavy footed but I drive like the old geriatric I am so its not much of an issue. Go for a Legacy and I reckon you'll be happy.

[Eddieb]

I've had 3 Legacy's, in fact I have 2 now, 1 for sale.

250T and 2 litre GT turbo will give about the same mileage, with the turbo giving far more smiles per mile. Have a look at clubsub.org.nz. Expected turbo economy is at least 450km off 60 litres, although some get up to 550km. Thats mostly around town usage. The 2 litre non turbo will obviously give a bit more, I used to get 500-550 off my older one and that had a 55 litre tank I think.

Apparently the primary turbo's on the twin turbo GT have a tendancy to give up aroung 150k, although mine is well past that and still running sweet with no funny noises. They all seem to have a big lurch between the primary and secondary turbo's kicking in.

I think they are great and have had a trouble free run out of all of mine, the newest one I have owned is a '94 GT.

[Devil]

No problem disagreeing but I think you just "floored" your arguement by yourself

Exzackamarely. Twas intended.

Buuuut, it does depend on how you drive. You've got the argument of all the power going into two wheels causing more wear, or you've got that wear spread over all four. Negligible if you drive like a nanna.

[vifferman]

I've got a 94 NZ-new Legacy (nothing fancy, no turbo or AWD etc ) with 150000kms on it and it has been a great car. Never let me down in the 100000kms I've done in it escept for when the battery crapped out.

That's probably an important point. I've had four high-mileage Subarus, and apart from the last one which had some coolant issues (blown hoses --> overheated --> cracked head), I've had no problems with any of them. However, I know three friends who've had used Jap imports, and all three had problems. The least of these was only one problem - a circlip letting the transmission fluid out ($7K), and the others had problem after problem (alternator, cooling system, transmission, starters, etc etc.)

Tell me summat - if Jap imports are good, why is it that the first question a dealer will ask when you go to trade your car in is "Is this a Jap import?" ? And why will they give you less for one than for a NZ-new vehicle? :spudwhat:

[FROSTY:Me]

Ok I sell these things for a living so I have a lot more contact than other guys.
The legacy to look at is the 250t about 1997.
Most have done about the 80k mark and unless they have been done will need the rocker cover gaskets done -its about a $300 job
otherwise you'll have oil on ya exhaust manifold and will think the engines goosed.
They are reliable and not too thirsty to be honest.
take it for a good drive and put her on full lock both ways at low speed. Check for rear diff binding --if its really bad could be an issue if mot theres an additive that fixes it.
another possibility for ya to concider is the ford telstar 2.5
its a rear wheel drive 2.5 with a bigger load space than anything else ya mentioned. -Its got a cam chain too

[TonyB]

Thanks for the tips so far guy's. Keep 'em coming, it's all useful. As for price range about 10-12K is about all we can manage.
The Telstar 2.5 could be an option, but I haven't seen one yet. The boss has a 92 626 with the 2.5 V6, great engine with heaps more grunt from idle to about 3500revs than the VT SS they had for a while (the BA XR8 is nearly as bad- the grunty Aussie V8 is a myth, those engines are peaky as hell, they made the right choice and got an XR6 Turbo which is heaps more drivable than the V8's......but I digress).
I like the idea of the Nissan Stagea- based on the Skyline which has a great engine. They are boxy though.

[marty]

the caldina 4wd turbo would be my pick - not the tiptronic one though. the stagea is just ugly. how about a maxima (cefiro) wagon? not many about, plenty of grunt, look good in white with tints/alloys. you'd be out of place in chch with anything but a subaru though.....but i did see this when i was surfing the other day:

http://www.autopoint.co.nz/DesktopDe...as=autopointNZ

[MOTOXXX]

IMO i would go for something like the Caldina or the legnum. Toyotas are realy reliable and not as risky as a vr4 legnum or legacy for getting pinched. They dont look as good but i have heard nothing but good things about them. Everyone i know who has had a suby has had problems with them - from the boy racer type of person to family type slow driver.

Also everyone has there own preferance on what feels right for them so test drive a few would be the way to go.