Philosophy, Post-Modernism, a Refresh of the Enlightenment

[007XX]

I'm just hoping that humanity, as a whole, might one day actually grow up and accept resposibility for its actions.

Pollyana?.....Is that you m'dear?

Kinda embarrasing to have to wait for an external event to come along and clear the slate for us eh?

But hasn't it been the rule for centuries?(rhetorical of course).
Humanity has been looking for cataclysmic cleansing for aeons now, eager to find the usual "quick fix" which will make it all ok...why? Because humans' nature is to be lazy.

Rather than to actually take responsibility for anything they do, they want the Pill-that-will-solve-it-all...

We are our own worst enemy, using our advancing technology to mask the flaws in our character. We invent ways of pallying to our deficiencies rather than face them and realise the answer is within ourselves. The bitter medecine of truth is above all the one that we want to avoid at all cost and our egos ruin the gifts we have been given, be it the Earth itself, or our talents as human beings.

Humanity is a monster which can be likened to the Ouroboros...The dragon forever eating its own tail...As much as we do not want to admit it, we are predictable and learning from the past mistakes is the only way we can entertain the idea of moving forward.

[Sully60]

So are you suggesting we should wipe the slate clean ourselves? Perhpas MAD wasn't a bad idea after all?

M.A.D. is the reason you could type that post and I'm able to reply to it.

[Krayy]

...
However, regardless of the accuracy and moral substance of Habermas's comments, the fact remains that there exists a plenitude of evil men who will will never be swayed from their destructive courses by means other than force...

I think that you are right citing that the shady men behind thrones of power are as ruthless as ever. Many conspiracy theories abound that the situations that brought about both World Wars, the Vietnam conflict and the war in Iraq were manufactured by a ruling elite, mainly bankers and personally I believe most of them.

The IMF appears also to be ruled by this group, and the tragic economic policies that they institute in 3rd world countries under the guise of aid that drive them into bankruptcy, only to be saved by selling the entire country back to that group can only be called piracy or and theft at best.

There is hope however, in that the powers that be (The New World Order, the Bilderberg Group, or another bunch of bankers) are chasing an economically based political advantage and could be exposed by enough countries or other economic bases standing firm and saying enough is enough.

The perceived power of the US economy is such a beast, which is based on Fractional Reserve banking and not underwritten by a gold standard. This means that the actual monies issued within the United States are not worth the paper that they are written on, and as a world wide standard of currency, that is not a good thing, as we can see with the current effect their housing crisis is having on our monetary rate. This Fractional Reserve banking system is controlled by the Federal Reserve, which is a private company that is run by European banking concerns and has literally a license to print money.

If a large number of countries that view the US as a major export earner told them to shove it and created their own consortiums, their economy would crumble overnight. That is the power to control your destiny.

We as a country are not in so deep as to be overly controlled by the shadowy powers but that will change in the very near future, so the chance of a stand gets slimmer every year. The problem is that I, along with most of us here, are simply along for the ride, but if things do not change, then I fear for my children's children and the restrictions their lives may be placed under.

[Mikkel]

So are you suggesting we should wipe the slate clean ourselves? Perhpas MAD wasn't a bad idea after all?

I never said that. I think we should continue this discussion via PM - seems someone is already catching on to us.

[Mental Trousers]

See?

See, this is exactly what I was talking about.

We are not worthy to respond, et cetera.

Yes, your point was proved. But I read Jim2's post and the entire way through I kept thinking oh crap don't get me started I don't have time and I've got too much to do etc. I'm being lazy because I could write something on subject but it's too difficult right now and gets pushed to the bottom of todays to do list (with 20 other things that won't happen today).

[gijoe1313]

The massaging of intellectual might and the prowess of the posters here, have left me bereft of my senses! Keen is the prose and with witticisms interjected, the nature of this mercurial topic has brought to fore old thoughts, cogitating from earnest discussions and the perusing of many an old tome.

I sit here with breath abated, bathing in the light of knowledge dessiminated through the ages and explored with gusto in these smokey forums of fornication, scatology, innuendos, double entendres, malapropisms, hyperbole, licentiousness and other interesting kernels of humanity's behaviour.

Please carry on as you are ladies and gentleman, I look forward to the discourse that is generating a voluble dissonance and discombobulation among those that have not had the opportunity to be present in such voluminous and fecund musings ... indeed the exsiccating of the topic here will undoubtedly perforce a shining truth that will viscerally sear those fumbling for the mechanics to entertain that apogee of thought!

[Edbear]

...However, regardless of the accuracy and moral substance of Habermas's comments, the fact remains that there exists a plenitude of evil men who will will never be swayed from their destructive courses by means other than force.

The only true path to the utopia you envisage, Jim, is paved with blood, steel, lead, and the lamentations of women.

And, of course, having reached Utopia with boots soaked in the gore of the unworthy and ears deafened from the clash and sting of righteous battle in the name of justice and moderation, the intrepid voyagers in social experimentation would find their minds crumbling back towards the low-entropy state of selfish waste and abandon that the world has spent its entire history wallowing in....

...and history repeats...

An unfortunate reality of our society is that it encourages "reef fish" that blindly and unquestioningly follow the ideology du jour, whether that be Friedmanism, terrorism or "climate change". New Zealand's politicians, government officials, business "leaders" and media are no exception.

We are poorly served by media that do not present dissenting or different views, instead having to rely on things like Snopes to unearth the urban legends, cartoonists like Doonesbury to niggle politicians, and the occasional curmudgeon prepared to rattle cages in the face of personal ridicule and scorn. RIP, Augie Auer.

The world we think that we live in is unsustainable on many different levels: politically, socially, culturally and environmentally. I have been waiting for some time to see what the tipping point will be that aims us in a new direction. According to that great mind, Rachel Hunter, "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen".

Human history tells us enough to know that whatever the new direction may be, it will not be "sustainable". Humans are too self-absorbed and just plain greedy to ever allow such a utopia...

Yup!

...Humans are stupid to start with...sheep generally wanting to be led....and religion is just what is generally required for such a state of mind.

Throw in the basic greed and you get what christianity has been about for centuries: leading the masses to suit "their" grand design...although maybe dwindling in their obvious presence, I am fully convinced that they are far from relinquishing their hold on the mere mortals.

But eh, I've had a glass of wine, and could have completely misunderstood what you guys are on about...

Nice write up anyway Mr Jim2!

Yup!

I'm just hoping that humanity, as a whole, might one day actually grow up and accept resposibility for its actions...

But I think most would agree a forlorn hope...

I think that you are right citing that the shady men behind thrones of power are as ruthless as ever. Many conspiracy theories abound that the situations that brought about both World Wars, the Vietnam conflict and the war in Iraq were manufactured by a ruling elite, mainly bankers and personally I believe most of them.

The IMF appears also to be ruled by this group, and the tragic economic policies that they institute in 3rd world countries under the guise of aid that drive them into bankruptcy, only to be saved by selling the entire country back to that group can only be called piracy or and theft at best.

There is hope however, in that the powers that be (The New World Order, the Bilderberg Group, or another bunch of bankers) are chasing an economically based political advantage and could be exposed by enough countries or other economic bases standing firm and saying enough is enough.

The perceived power of the US economy is such a beast, which is based on Fractional Reserve banking and not underwritten by a gold standard. This means that the actual monies issued within the United States are not worth the paper that they are written on, and as a world wide standard of currency, that is not a good thing, as we can see with the current effect their housing crisis is having on our monetary rate. This Fractional Reserve banking system is controlled by the Federal Reserve, which is a private company that is run by European banking concerns and has literally a license to print money.

If a large number of countries that view the US as a major export earner told them to shove it and created their own consortiums, their economy would crumble overnight. That is the power to control your destiny.

We as a country are not in so deep as to be overly controlled by the shadowy powers but that will change in the very near future, so the chance of a stand gets slimmer every year. The problem is that I, along with most of us here, are simply along for the ride, but if things do not change, then I fear for my children's children and the restrictions their lives may be placed under.

Anyone who doesn't think that desire/greed for money and desire/lust for power are the bottom line, is naive. Anyone who believes this will change, is also naive.

[Sully60]

...and history repeats...










Anyone who doesn't think that desire/greed for money and desire/lust for power are the bottom line, is naive. Anyone who believes this will change, is also naive.

Yup!
10 chars

[007XX]

...and history repeats...



Yup!



Yup!



But I think most would agree a forlorn hope...



Anyone who doesn't think that desire/greed for money and desire/lust for power are the bottom line, is naive. Anyone who believes this will change, is also naive.

Could you perhaps make that into a slightly more drawn out tirade? Your simplistic approach is but mildly vexing

[Krayy]

...Anyone who doesn't think that desire/greed for money and desire/lust for power are the bottom line, is naive. Anyone who believes this will change, is also naive.

Guilty as charged, but I don't have to like. Consider me an Anti-Globalist minus the strong liberalism, feminism and other greeny-touchy-feely views.

PS: In the words of SJD (and a damn good beer ad):

Beautiful Haze
It might be nice to smash the state, but it's getting late
And mostly I'm just working for the man.
It might be good to tell the boss that I don't give a toss and to stick his lame-arse job
But I'm not sure that I can.

The universe is mostly fine with me - it seems to me the only place to be.

Wake up from your beautiful haze
Rise up, smash your beautiful chains, climb out of your beautiful maze
Rise up, rise up.
Climb down from your beautiful tower, you know you won't make beautiful remains.
All that's left is a beautiful hour
And its ours, ours

[Ocean1]

Anyone who doesn't think that desire/greed for money and desire/lust for power are the bottom line, is naive.

What's money?

Define power.

[Edbear]

Could you perhaps make that into a slightly more drawn out tirade? Your simplistic approach is but mildly vexing

Man o' few words, I am...

What's money?

Define power.

Goodonyermate...

[007XX]

Define power.

I prefer to think of this definition:

http://www.answers.com/topic/balance-of-power

Yes, yes, I know....even I have little Polyanna moments

[Ocean1]

I prefer to think of this definition:

http://www.answers.com/topic/balance-of-power

Yes, yes, I know....even I have little Polyanna moments

Take... *counts* one step backwards.

Balanced or otherwise, power is conferred by the ability to destroy something. It’s a tool of control and it always requires either force or the believable threat of force.

And money? Is a unit of value, no more and no less.

So to paraphrase the gent with the chequered vest: Anyone who doesn't think that desire for value and for control are the bottom line, is naïve.

[007XX]

Take... *counts* one step backwards.

Balanced or otherwise, power is conferred by the ability to destroy something. It’s a tool of control and it always requires either force or the believable threat of force.

And money? Is a unit of value, no more and no less.

So to paraphrase the gent with the chequered vest: Anyone who doesn't think that desire for value and for control are the bottom line, is naïve.

Would you stop being so darn logical....gaaaahhh! I got a curly haired Shirley Temple like little girl inside of me screaming: "No, no...please let it not be so! Please let us be as one and kiss in the sunshine and never be bad to each other..."

Maybe more people shoukld read about the Sword of Damocles.