Half-a-billion dollar "Treelord" settlement

[McJim]

That's Hungarian if ever I heard one.

Dinnae be daft laddie - McJim is Hungarian. McEwan is from Outer Mongolia

[Dave Lobster]

How many maoris would be alive today if the Dutch had have stuck around here, rather than the british?

[Sanx]

How many maoris would be alive today if the Dutch had have stuck around here, rather than the british?

Or the French, for that matter.

I think it's quite telling that the Brits chose to offer a Treaty instead of simply rocking up and kicking the living shit out of the natives. 1840. Napolean had been well and truly beaten and had died in exile. The little spat in America was a generation ago. With the exception of a couple of little spats in Egypt and the truly disasterous occupation of Afghanistan (all together now: "history, never repeats ..."), the Brits were relatively comfortable militarily. The British navy was at the height of its powers, and the army was still basking in the reflected glory of having kicked the crap out of everyone that had made the mistake of opposing them.

Despite this, Britain didn't adopt it's usual native-handling strategy and chose to offer a treaty. I really don't know why this happened, but I can only think of two possibilities: a) they genuinely did think twice about taking on a warrior race with a liking for violence honed by years of killing each other, or b) New Zealand was a hell of a long way away and trying to conduct overseas missions when re-inforcements were six months away seemed a bad idea.

Anyone else got any theories?

[McJim]

Despite this, Britain didn't adopt it's usual native-handling strategy and chose to offer a treaty. I really don't know why this happened, but I can only think of two possibilities: a) they genuinely did think twice about taking on a warrior race with a liking for violence honed by years of killing each other, or b) New Zealand was a hell of a long way away and trying to conduct overseas missions when re-inforcements were six months away seemed a bad idea.

Anyone else got any theories?

Well the English Military had cut their teeth fighting a warrior race with a liking for violence and with about 4,000 years of killing each other. I think the British quite simply sent settlers and didn't back them up with the real army or the real navy. Settlers had to do their best without the muscle and made the mistake of trading firearms with the natives which unfortunately handed them the advantage (traditionally the Brits kept the guns for themselves and anhiliation ensued)

But that's just my guess.

[sAsLEX]

Or the French, for that matter.

I think it's quite telling that the Brits chose to offer a Treaty instead of simply rocking up and kicking the living shit out of the natives. 1840. Napolean had been well and truly beaten and had died in exile. The little spat in America was a generation ago. With the exception of a couple of little spats in Egypt and the truly disasterous occupation of Afghanistan (all together now: "history, never repeats ..."), the Brits were relatively comfortable militarily. The British navy was at the height of its powers, and the army was still basking in the reflected glory of having kicked the crap out of everyone that had made the mistake of opposing them.

Despite this, Britain didn't adopt it's usual native-handling strategy and chose to offer a treaty. I really don't know why this happened, but I can only think of two possibilities: a) they genuinely did think twice about taking on a warrior race with a liking for violence honed by years of killing each other, or b) New Zealand was a hell of a long way away and trying to conduct overseas missions when re-inforcements were six months away seemed a bad idea.

Anyone else got any theories?

To be honest the guerilla warfare that the New Zealand terrain so suited would of seen a long long period of war before the Maori were defeated.

Hell they invented, and did extrodinarily well at, trench warfare!

[98tls]

Or the French, for that matter.

I think it's quite telling that the Brits chose to offer a Treaty instead of simply rocking up and kicking the living shit out of the natives. 1840. Napolean had been well and truly beaten and had died in exile. The little spat in America was a generation ago. With the exception of a couple of little spats in Egypt and the truly disasterous occupation of Afghanistan (all together now: "history, never repeats ..."), the Brits were relatively comfortable militarily. The British navy was at the height of its powers, and the army was still basking in the reflected glory of having kicked the crap out of everyone that had made the mistake of opposing them.

Despite this, Britain didn't adopt it's usual native-handling strategy and chose to offer a treaty. I really don't know why this happened, but I can only think of two possibilities: a) they genuinely did think twice about taking on a warrior race with a liking for violence honed by years of killing each other, or b) New Zealand was a hell of a long way away and trying to conduct overseas missions when re-inforcements were six months away seemed a bad idea.

Anyone else got any theories?

There Navy wasnt really of much use to them here,man for man they got there arses kicked on more than one occasion.

[Grahameeboy]

so does this mean the British Government is about to make reparations for all the North Sea oil and gas profits from over the past 3 decades too?

True although I am sure Scotland saw the flip side too...at least they have some control now with their own parliament and I am pretty sure that since then the profits from oil did not always get past the wall.

But love the Scots and the Highlands having bagged many a Munro...only other Country I would live in...

[sAsLEX]

their own parliament

And how they don't waste millions and millions on a stupid building.......

[Grahameeboy]

Steam, my people got shat on big-time by the English a few hundred years ago too in Scotland.

But you don't hear me bleating on and on and on about how the poms raped the cattle and stole the women etc etc.

And you don't hear me saying to th British Government "Pay me, pay me pay me" for hundreds of years....or worse still, accepting an agreed full and final payment and then letting the next generation leech off another few million from the country in payment.

Time to get over it.

You get invaded and lose a war? - bad luck, life sucks at the time but you get over it. (or should)

Agreed Sir....Native American Indians etc etc...

What I don't get is that the Treaty was with the Crown not the NZ Govt...

[sAsLEX]

Agreed Sir....Native American Indians etc etc...

What I don't get is that the Treaty was with the Crown not the NZ Govt...

Hmmm I have a look at my parchment and its not the Govt I am serving but the Queen.

[Grahameeboy]

Hmmm I have a look at my parchment and its not the Govt I am serving but the Queen.

Does she pay better then?

[Steam]

What I don't get is that the Treaty was with the Crown not the NZ Govt...

Whenever someone says "Crown", just put in "NZ Goverment".
NZ Government owned land in NZ is called Crown Land, the Govt's lawyers are the Crown Law Office, there are Crown Research Institutes, etc etc. All owned by the government of NZ.
It's a holdover from the days when the royals actually did something useful.
When we stopped legally being a colony we accepted all the responsibilities of the Crown.
If someone says "They signed the treaty with the Crown in England, not us..." they just don't understand what Crown means.
Besides, the Treaty was reaffirmed, passed into law again, as being one of the foundations of NZ law in 1975.

[98tls]

Steam, my people got shat on big-time by the English a few hundred years ago too in Scotland.

But you don't hear me bleating on and on and on about how the poms raped the cattle and stole the women etc etc.

And you don't hear me saying to th British Government "Pay me, pay me pay me" for hundreds of years....or worse still, accepting an agreed full and final payment and then letting the next generation leech off another few million from the country in payment.

Time to get over it.

You get invaded and lose a war? - bad luck, life sucks at the time but you get over it. (or should)

Damn,my familys German,does this mean the jews owe me nothing,all that anger for nothing?

[Ocean1]

Anyone else got any theories?

Trade.

NZ had little to offer, certainly not enough to interest any of the great European trading houses. Not enough, therefore, to justify a full occupational strategy from half a planet away.

[sAsLEX]

Trade.

NZ had little to offer, certainly not enough to interest any of the great European trading houses. Not enough, therefore, to justify a full occupational strategy from half a planet away.

And now they eat our butter and beef!

How short sighted of them.