Giving way to right-turning vehicles?

[Ixion]

Yes, late seventies or early eighties it was.

I was the reverse, thought it a bad idea at first, but now it's well settled in an no sentient person (except immigrants, and with them it's not that they can't figure it out, they just don't want to know about anythign that's in any way different to 'back home' ) has any problem with it. It's not worth changing.

It was actually driven by the small towns. In the city the old rule worked OK. But on the open road ,.a right turning vehicle was considered dangerously exposed in the middle of the road. And as open road speeds rose this caused a considerable number of serious accidents. The rule about having to pull to the left before turning right was dropped at the same time.

On the open road, it still makes sense.

[Badjelly]

The reason I think the "new rules" (new as in 30 years old) are a bad thing is that they create too many opportunities for confusion & misjudgement. Not just for new NZers who don't understand them, but for everyone.

I'm vehicle A, turning right into a side street, and I see vehicle B come out of the side street. Is his right-hand indicator flashing? (I can't see, because it's on the side of the car away from me.) Is there a Give Way or Stop sign on the side street? Oh, WTF, I'll just drive far enough forward that he can't pull out in front of me and then make the turn.

I'm B coming out of the side street, wanting to turn right. Here comes A from my left. Is he turning right. No he isn't, no he isn't, yes he is, OK I'll pull out, hmm, why is he shaking his fist at me? (I am not making this one up, I'm talking about the intersection of Volga St and Mt Albert Rd any weekday morning. I'm B.) Or, yes he is turning right, but what about the guy behind him?

I'm A again, still trying to turn into the same side street (but B's not there). I see C coming down the road wanting to turn left. But what about D coming down the road behind C? D's left indicator is obscured by C, so let's assume he doesn't want to turn left. But can he fit past C? Depends how far to the left C moves before making the turn. Nah, he can't fit past, she'll be right, faark, crash!

Replayed every day in every suburb around the country.

[Badjelly]

And, might I add, the fact that only 5-10% of the driving population even tries to follow the "right-turning traffic entering a side street (A) gives way right-turning traffic coming out of the side street (B)" rule tells you something. I have lost count of the number of times I have given way to the right in this situation and caused complete confusion.

[Grahameeboy]

The rules are actually very simple and straightforward. Probably the simplest possible rule set you can have -- just give way to your right. But numbnuts drivers can't necessarily make sense of that.

Yeah but that turning left rule is considered giving way to your right even though the right turning vehicle is not on your right, coming from your right....it's oncoming or NNNNE not East approaching....now that is numbnuts thinking...I mean the turning right vehicle is no more coming from right as is the turning left vehicle etc...

[90s]

except immigrants ...

A strategic mistake to ignore them as they form 50% of the population, and in the area of Auckland I live (which could be any part) about 100%?

[Ixion]

Ah, I don't ignore them. I watch for them very carefully. And remove myself elsewhere. I just wish they all came with flags. The ones with turbans are OK, you can see the turban and get out of the way. But the Poms are harder. They look, outwardly, normal.

[90s]

Poms are harder. They look, outwardly, normal.

Careful - those pests understand the roundabout rules from birth and therefore present a considerable hazzard in behaving correctly on them ...

And for your information I look far from normal sir.

[ynot slow]

Read first page only,but my take is as follows "When turning right,give way to all vehicles crossing or approaching from the right".Which means if a car is turning right and on your left,you are turning right,you have right of way,although be prepared to stop lol.

If said vehicle doesn't give way the fingure and/or boot to rear panel has a good effect.

[bikemike]

I agree with Mikkel, and this here nugget from Badjelly:

... But what about D coming down the road behind C? D's left indicator is obscured by C, so let's assume he doesn't want to turn left. But can he fit past C? Depends how far to the left C moves before making the turn. Nah, he can't fit past, she'll be right, faark, crash!

Replayed every day in every suburb around the country.

The problem I have with this rule is not any difficulty remembering it, but the fact that as a left turner you have to make the call based on the vehicle (B) coming right out of the side road you want to turn into, because he may or may not need to give way to the vehicle (A) coming toward you who wants to turn right into the same lane as you, and (A), as he might or might not give way to you regardless of whether he's considered whether he should give way to (B). So far so road sense... but, you also have to watch for the guy (D) coming up behind you who might or might not squeeze past, nay, even overtake and cross double yellows to go past you whilst you sit waiting to go left. Mr Oncoming (A) may or may not wait for this possibility leaving a stalemate. Plus there's the cyclist coming up your nearside.

I see this regularly round the corner from me, the usual outcome is that the left turner gets overtaken by (D), who crosses the double yellows and often has to brake to avoid (B) who has just pulled out because A and me are at a standstill, or (A) who is the one who has right of way and bravely makes the turn. Even if I take the whole lane whilst waiting to turn left (there is no filter and there are cyclists) the guy (D) will pass on the yellows. Really, it's the norm. Maybe I should go and video it.

Maybe the problem here is not so much the give way rule, or even the following of it, but the wrong choice of junction.

Let there be more roundabouts, and roundabouts feeding into roundabouts, roundabouts with traffic lights, roundabouts within roundabouts.

Seriously though, even in standard and proper use with the guy (D) following and not trying a pass into oncoming traffic but where there is instead plenty of room or even lanes for him to pass you whilst you wait to turn left you still have to know what he is going to do before giving way to (A) or sneaking in before him because you are 'covered' by the guy behind you (D) passing.

I'm not whinging about avin to look beyind me iver. I love the big mirrors on my bike which actually let me see a full view of what is there, I use them always.

The one really good road rule we have here is parking on your own side of the road.

[spudchucka]

Fucking moronic rule, should be scrapped, and give ways installed at every intersection to remove all traces of ambiguity.

There is no ambiguity, it is fundamentally simple. Unfortunately there are also extremely high numbers of fundamentally stupid motorists who should be banished to public transport.

[spudchucka]

It's not simple at all. You have to look for the give way or stop sign on the side road. If we gave way to the left we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Part of the function of road rules is to mirror common sense. It seems to me that, in this case, it does not.

Right turning traffic gives way to other right turning traffic on their right. It is simple and if you have to "look" for stop signs and give way signs, (not to mention the lines painted on the road surface) at intersections then you need your eyes tested.

[Badjelly]

There is no ambiguity, it is fundamentally simple. Unfortunately there are also extremely high numbers of fundamentally stupid motorists who should be banished to public transport.

So the idea is to cause all the morons to crash, thereby discouraging them from driving?

It's taking a while.

[Badjelly]

Right turning traffic gives way to other right turning traffic on their right. It is simple and if you have to "look" for stop signs and give way signs, (not to mention the lines painted on the road surface) at intersections then you need your eyes tested.

Corner Evans Bay Parade & Kemp St, Kilbirnie Wellington: it used to be uncontrolled, now there's a Give Way sign on Kemp St. The sign's behind a tree and the line on the road is faint. Result: much confusion. There are many like that.

[swbarnett]

if you have to "look" for stop signs and give way signs, (not to mention the lines painted on the road surface) at intersections then you need your eyes tested.

Truck sitting forward covering the white line and overgrown tree blocking the stop sign from my view. It's happened to me. Even if it's obvious you still have to look.

[swbarnett]

I agree with Mikkel, and this here nugget from Badjelly:


The problem I have with this rule is not any difficulty remembering it, but the fact that as a left turner you have to make the call based on the vehicle (B) coming right out of the side road you want to turn into, because he may or may not need to give way to the vehicle (A) coming toward you who wants to turn right into the same lane as you, and (A), as he might or might not give way to you regardless of whether he's considered whether he should give way to (B). So far so road sense... but, you also have to watch for the guy (D) coming up behind you who might or might not squeeze past, nay, even overtake and cross double yellows to go past you whilst you sit waiting to go left. Mr Oncoming (A) may or may not wait for this possibility leaving a stalemate. Plus there's the cyclist coming up your nearside.

I had this yesterday in the cage. I was wanting to turn left into the side street, car wanting to turn right across my path that had right of way over me. The car behind me was coming through so I started to move. The car behind me must've stopped because the other car took their right of way and I had to jump on the anchors real sharpish. No accident resulted because I was open to the situation changing but it does not bode well for anyone that's even a little less alert than I was.