Want to help the Tibetans?

[Tank]

We've already got them surrounded in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Solomons and they still haven't surrendered.

Funny thing they have us surrounded also:

Howick, Pinehill, Birkenhead .....

[Manxman]

Try getting to that link from inside China.

But seriously - the majority of people are simply jumping on the bandwagon. Have they done anything to help Tibet before? Probably not.

Its just another trendy thing for people to cling onto.

After the Olympics there will be another 'protest flavor of the month' to be pissed about and everyone (except our mate Winston) will go back to buying Chinese goods and forget all about Tibet.

and THATS why I have no respect for the majority of people who complain about it. Note I say majority - not all because there are a few people who really do care and have been protesting about this for years - them I have respect for.

...onya mate - a point well made.

To all those tree hugging, warm fuzzy people out there who fight for whales' right and this right and that right and the other right: go forth and apply as much effort to the issues in yer own backyard (noting that another baby has 'suspicious' injuries today - ie this week's real tragedy http://stuff.co.nz/4473883a11.html ). Gangs, meth, drunken yoof, etc.

I have this theory that many protestors are actually in it just for themselves, ie egotistical attention seekers, who haven't got the balls to fight for a 'real' cause, ie one that would require real effort, real thought, real dialogue and real solutions. This profile could be easily applied to many greenies and many labour politicians.

I'm with this guy. He talks muchos sense. There is usually another side to every story...

[Manxman]

That's like KB!

I was going to buy Chinese for lunch but I've gone Turkish instead. That'll fuck 'em! $6.00 they're starved of for their anti-Tibetan tirades.

But mate, haven't you heard what the Turks are doing to the Kurds...how could you buy Turkish - the shame. (P/T)

[Manxman]

We should immediately declare war on China. That should put the shits up them.

Nah, just send Winston. He'll sort the feckers.

[Wiki Drifter]

US American geography....
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kzNWi5h8Hs[/YOUTUBE]

[Forest]

In 1950 China invaded a small part of Tibet. The Tibetans fought back then but came second.
In 1951, representatives of Tibetan authority participated in negotiations in Beijing with Chinese government. It resulted in a Seventeen Point Agreement which affirmed China's sovereignty over Tibet. The agreement was ratified in Lhasa (the capital of Tibet) a few months later. How much choice they had in signing that agreement I'm not sure. After that the Chinese did improve the Tibetan infrastructure ... roads, schools hospitals etc however religious and political freedom suffered.

I think a lot of the protestors out there today believe than China simply invaded out of the blue and took over the whole country. Wasn't quite that cut and dried.

No it wasn't cut and dried at all.

For example the CIA put the Dalai Lama onto their payroll between the 1950s through to the 1970s, and he arranged funding and support to train Tibetan guerilla soldiers who fought against the Chinese army. This carried on until Nixon came to power and established closer links between the USA and China (at which point the CIA stopped aiding the Tibetans).

Before the Chinese came along, Tibet was a complete shit-hole with most of the land and wealth concentrated in the hands of an aristocratic and cruel ruling class. In my opinion the Chinese have done a huge amount to modernise the country.

[Mad Max]

So everyone needs to be "modernised" do they?

Ever give some thought to the Abo’s in OZ, They had been getting along just fine for several thousand years, not fucking up the environment, very little in the way of social problems and they would have continued that way for another several thousand years but now they are “modernised” they would have to be one of the most fucked up native people on the planet.

Bring on more “progress” then should we?

What ever happened to leaving people alone to live there own lives without imposing another cultures values on them. Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

[Macstar]

So everyone needs to be "modernised" do they?

Ever give some thought to the Abo’s in OZ, They had been getting along just fine for several thousand years, not fucking up the environment, very little in the way of social problems and they would have continued that way for another several thousand years but now they are “modernised” they would have to be one of the most fucked up native people on the planet.

Bring on more “progress” then should we?

What ever happened to leaving people alone to live there own lives without imposing another cultures values on them. Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

I agree with this statement Mad Max. Development and modernisation boasts a better quality of life and length. However, on the flipside we have more depression in modern society, less community/family bonds and more stress. Add the 'materialism treadmill' of never-achievable-fulfilment through consumtion and the argument to leave the Rainforest people and their habitat alone starts to make a bit of sense.

Consumer boycotts are effective. Look up the Ivg League universities and Pepsi. That movement started with a few students on one campus and quickly spread to several US-based unis. Pepsi eventually responded with a manipulative ownership change structure in Burma that led protesters to believe the company's foreign direct inestment had been withdrawn (when in fact it hadn't). But anyway - power to the people!

Nike corporation also took a beating in its home-town from the local university students a few years back.

I'd be keen to know more about Fonterra's actions abroad where it's been spending up large in South America and China. Unconfirmed reports exist of local farmers being pressured to sell land and of Fonterra-contracted farmers polluting waterways (worse than they do here in NZ) in these countries.

[Forest]

So everyone needs to be "modernised" do they?

Ever give some thought to the Abo’s in OZ, They had been getting along just fine for several thousand years, not fucking up the environment, very little in the way of social problems and they would have continued that way for another several thousand years but now they are “modernised” they would have to be one of the most fucked up native people on the planet.

Your view of the traditional Aboriginal way of life is absurdly romantic.

They didn't live in a harsh and unpredictable wilderness because they wanted to - they lived there because they had no other option.

Bring on more “progress” then should we?

Yes. Providing access to development is a fundamental human right

What ever happened to leaving people alone to live there own lives without imposing another cultures values on them. Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

Have you considered that people often cannot live by their own hands? The world is filled with failed states ruled by capricious and cruel leaders.

Consider - Afghanistan, North Korea, Burma/Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Ivory Coast, Sudan, Haiti ...

The non-interventionist point of view condemns these people to further suffering.

[Oakie]

Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

In a word ... yes... in 1951.

[Oakie]

Hmmm. It's just occured to me to wonder if human rights there are any worse there now than they were when it was a country where serfdom was the norm and slavery was not unknown.

[tommorth]

we need support the chinese government in everthing they do so we can continue to buy cheap goods which allow us to feel rich if 3rd world countrys had decent payrates and working conditions the goods they produced wouldnt be cheap and we would be forced to realise that we are all poor

[Macstar]

we need support the chinese government in everthing they do so we can continue to buy cheap goods which allow us to feel rich if 3rd world countrys had decent payrates and working conditions the goods they produced wouldnt be cheap and we would be forced to realise that we are all poor

HMmm. This is a good point too!