Work Vs Dole

[skidMark]

Yeah, Scummy went for a toilet-cleaning job to start with, but when they turned him down, he had to settle for being a cop... Sad state of affairs.

*duck*



And that simply does not compute.

Anyway, here is Sanx's 7 point plan for turning round NZ:

1. To be able to vote, you must not have claimed the dole for more than one month in the past twelve.
2. All sickness and disability benefit entitlements to be decided on by a panel of doctors employed by the state. Getting your local GP to sign a certificate would not be acceptable.
3. Compulsory education or equivalent trades-based apprenticeship compulsory until the age of 18.
4. Dole paid via vouchers for food, bills and kids' clothing. Rent / mortgage payments paid directly to landlord / lender. $25 a week discretionary spending money. Hardship benefits available only if genuinely assessed by the provider.
5. No benefits other than to NZ citizens. People of residency visas or with permanent residency cannot apply. Genuine refugees classed differently; they didn't choose to come to NZ for its lifestyle.
6. If dole is being paid to a single person or a childless couple (unless the person or partner has a disability) then car impounded for the period you're on the dole.
7. After three months on the dole continually, attendance at an approved tertiary education becomes compulsory. Those failing to attend required to perform menial community service. Those refusing that are jailed.

How do you suppose they get to job interviews if on the dole? and you have impounded thier car, at a rate of which impound yards charge $400 for 28 days of storage PER vehicle, who foots the bill? the taxpayer again?

So they are relying on friends etc to take time off thier work to run them around. At which point everybody is running all thier jobless mates so much because none of them have cars. thus taking time off thier own work, with the country loosing yet more money?

[doc]

Ok, all the vouchers is sweet, mint.

But $25 discretionary money?

Mate i get $160 pw.

$120 on rent.

Leaves $40 for food. Which is easy spent.

This then leaving nothing for clothes, or nice items of any kind.

It's not a nice way to live. I have had to sell everything i bought from when last working to actually get by.

Personally I think at your age your family should be supporting you. Not the taxpayer.

[scrivy]

A person on the dole should be either proveing they are actively seeking paid employment -Ie prove they are attending say 3 job interviews a week for the first three months OR they should have to WORK for their dole money sorta like the PD crews. Out in woodhill marking out cycle track or painting schools or clearing drains.

Frosty - they do go out and look for jobs.
I get lots coming into my shops wearing ripped clothing, pissed, smoking inside (even smelling of pot), and even blowing their f@cken noses on their sleeves - I kid you not!! They ask "You'se fellas got any jobs bro?"
Well, ask yourself. Even if you desperately needed someone, would you take them on??? The hell no!!
They go back to WINZ and say they've asked around - but no jobs are available. They do it deliberately!

[BIHB@0610]

Why can't the Darwin effect be targeted .........

[carver]

ask zeroindex, he has been on the dole for a year non stop

[Sanx]

Maybe you should experience what you propose, for 12 months and then coment how it felt. An afluent society should have a concience. I dont believe that all beneficeries are ripping off the system. I think it is also a misconception that its easy on the benefit for a solo parent. If they need anything Winz just gives it to them.

My disgust with people that abuse my tax money lies more with those that decide how it is spent.

I have no intention of experiencing what I propose for twelve months, purely because I wouldn't ever let myself get into that situation. I'm an IT contractor. Between September 30th 2007 and March 3rd 2008, I was only able to find work for a period of one month; the market died,and there simply wasn't the work in my field. I spent every last cent I had saved, and if my bike hadn't been written off and the option for me to take the money hadn't been available, then I'm not entirely sure where I would have found March's rent and bills money.

So instead of sitting around on my arse, I took up a contract in Brisbane. Yes, I'm lucky that I could just up sticks and move here (albeit temporarily), but I've also had to make some sacrifices to be here.

Sure - an affluent society should have a conscience. But NZ is not that affluent. And - as whoever it was in parliament said - society's conscience should be there to provide a safety net, not a hammock. I also know a coupleof beneficiaries, who are perfectly happy ripping-off the system for as much as they can get. It disgusts me.

Ok, all the vouchers is sweet, mint.

But $25 discretionary money?

Mate i get $160 pw.

$120 on rent.

Leaves $40 for food. Which is easy spent.

This then leaving nothing for clothes, or nice items of any kind.

It's not a nice way to live. I have had to sell everything i bought from when last working to actually get by.

Under the system I proposed, you'd have everything paid for apart from luxuries. Then you'd get $25 to spend on anything else you wanted. The idea's to provide the necessities, but not enough to live a life that people would regard as comfortable. It's the safety net, with incentive to go out and work.

How do you suppose they get to job interviews if on the dole? and you have impounded thier car, at a rate of which impound yards charge $400 for 28 days of storage PER vehicle, who foots the bill? the taxpayer again?

So they are relying on friends etc to take time off thier work to run them around. At which point everybody is running all thier jobless mates so much because none of them have cars. thus taking time off thier own work, with the country loosing yet more money?

Was not suggesting that cars should be impounded for cash. They wouldn't be - the tab would be picked up by the state. Might sound like a lot of money, but there's no reason on earth why impound yards should charge $400 a week. You can get secure long-tern parking at the airport for considerably less than that, for a start, and they valet your car for you before you get back.

Essential travel and travel to job interviews would be funded. Anything else is non-essential. Walk.

[Finn]

Personally I think at your age your family should be supporting you. Not the taxpayer.

I think his parents are on the dole too.

[avgas]

Ok, all the vouchers is sweet, mint.

But $25 discretionary money?

Mate i get $160 pw.

$120 on rent.

Leaves $40 for food. Which is easy spent.

This then leaving nothing for clothes, or nice items of any kind.

Consider youself lucky, i got $150/wk "borrowed" from the gubbermint. Did that for 5 years.
I'm now paying it back.
When do you pay yours back.
To make things more fun i also worked a minimum 20 week + 40 hours study.
Last year of uni i changed it to 60+ hours work + 15 hours study. No income from anyone except myself (- student loan repayments).
I'm sorry - but cry me a river.

[avgas]

Personally I think at your age your family should be supporting you. Not the taxpayer.

Bah - he's not 8, mabey im a bit cruel but if you old enough to be your own person your old enough.
While i bitch and moan about hardships i have had - i wouldn't change it. I picked up life skills that some of my friends can't imagine. For no other reason other than I had it hard and they had it soft.
How can you experience success if you have always had it spoon fed to you?
I'm even gonna make my kids do the bloody dishes - even if I have wait (and do them myself) until they are old enough.

[avgas]

or your standards are too high.
I have only been unemployed for 3 weeks when i broke my leg (ACC)........at that time i lost my job (i was only temp so easily replaced), and basically the day i could walk was the day i had my first interview.
Therefore i can not comment on how hard it is to find a job after being on the dole. I do not need to comment of the supply of jobs - the fact that there are 3 job websites in NZ with enough work to be non-govt supported, and about 2 dozen recruitment agencies seems enough for me not to comment.

[mstriumph]

in west aus the jobs are chasing the people ....

[speights_bud]

in west aus the jobs are chasing the people ....

yEp... $32 H/r STARTING rate for one of the guys who left work last year and jumped the Gap, he was only 2 years out of his apprenticeship aswell.

[mstriumph]

Interesting Scenario’s these


The first one (person XY)reads as a Single parent deciding if it is best to keep working, or take a minor drop in money, and spend more time on parenting, Which is different to going on the Dole.
As someone who ended up in that very position about 7 years ago. I know that it is a hard decision to make. A lot of outside factors can influence it like, Is the child school age or pre school? can you readily get time off work when a child is sick? can you get time off during school holidays? well you get paid for the time off? Can you have any flexibility in the hours you work to accommodate your responsibilities to your child, children? How much is before/ after school care costing you? Do you have supportive Family, Friends close by that can help out with responsibilities?

In my situation I had 2 primary school age children, I chose to keep working because I had an understanding Manager who let me start and finish work at a different times to the standard ones. I was given flexibility to get time off when I needed it, and make the time up when I could. I had supportive people around me that could help out at times. Even with all the above it was still a close call to keep working as after I paid for child care, I worked out that I was working for about $20 a week more than if I was on a benefit, this was because of the costs of child care, and earning too much to get any subsidy on child care. So you really have to weigh up the time parenting verses the showing your child/children the "you work for a living choice" and decide which is the best way to go. I know that if one of my children had been pre-school age I would have gone on a benefit. I know if I hadn’t been able to negotiate for the flexibility at work I would have gone on a benefit.
The interesting thing is though if I hadn’t kept working, I wouldn’t have come across the opportunity to start my own Business, and change my financial circumstances for the better.
..............

i have often thought that we could save ourselves at least some of the problems the country faces through delinquent children and teens if the government was forward-thinking enough to pay a decent wage for one parent to stay at home with children until they reached school age ...



oh look - there goes another flying pig

[Mully]

i have often thought that we could save ourselves at least some of the problems the country faces through delinquent children and teens if the government was forward-thinking enough to pay a decent wage for one parent to stay at home with children until they reached school age ...

Or if people who chose to have children only did it when they can afford to survive on a single income. Rather than just pop sprogs out like it's a hobby.

[Howie]

Or if people who chose to have children only did it when they can afford to survive on a single income. Rather than just pop sprogs out like it's a hobby.

yep that would work if you can guarantee what that income is going to be for the twenty years after having said sprogs. Life changes and your income can change quite quickly at times.