2005 600cc Sport production results

[Shaun]

would any one have officual results of the first 2 rounds of the champs for 600 class in 2005?

[HDTboy]

Ruapuna December 04
Teretonga December 04
Manfeild February 05
Pukekohe February 05

[Shaun]

Ruapuna December 04
Teretonga December 04
Manfeild February 05
Pukekohe February 05

Check out Andrew Strouds results, in the Ruapuna and Teretonga rounds

He was using a stock standard shock, that comes with the bike std!

Man he is good!

[Robert Taylor]

Check out Andrew Strouds results, in the Ruapuna and Teretonga rounds

He was using a stock standard shock, that comes with the bike std!

Man he is good!

Yes indeed he is ( politely )a freak but he was also awaiting his aftermarket shock at that very time so he could go faster. Given the development that has carried through since and that other riders have lifted their game it would take a very brave man to bet on that happening again. ( just look at how laptimes have tumbled ) Correct me if Im wrong but I also think that Ruapuna round may have been damp meaning you have more chance of being competitive with a soft rear shock with low ride height.

All else being equal he would have circulated faster with a well setup aftermarket shock and frankly his main competition were not ''on their game'' at that time, at least one recovering from a debilitating sickness. So your post is a little economical with the truth.

In Supersport 600 WSBK no-one runs stock rear shocks, they wouldnt be competitive.

I struggle to understand why you posted this thread?

[HDTboy]

I struggle to understand why you posted this thread?

Maybe Shaun's been doing some light reading.

[Shaun]

Yes indeed he is ( politely )a freak but he was also awaiting his aftermarket shock at that very time so he could go faster. Given the development that has carried through since and that other riders have lifted their game it would take a very brave man to bet on that happening again. ( just look at how laptimes have tumbled ) Correct me if Im wrong but I also think that Ruapuna round may have been damp meaning you have more chance of being competitive with a soft rear shock with low ride height.

All else being equal he would have circulated faster with a well setup aftermarket shock and frankly his main competition were not ''on their game'' at that time, at least one recovering from a debilitating sickness. So your post is a little economical with the truth.

In Supersport 600 WSBK no-one runs stock rear shocks, they wouldnt be competitive.

I struggle to understand why you posted this thread?

Boring Robert! We spoke about this idea personally yesterday morning, and I said to you, I think this would be a good way to creat a leed in class to the 600 feild, and keep the bike building cost down by up to $10K Nothing economical with my post at all _ IT WAS FACT AND IS FACT.

You sited, that the rest of world is different, and we should follow suit, I said Bollocks, there is not riders here good enough to really make it on the world scene ( A couple maybe) and as it is, our 600 class rules, do not even work together with Australia, so we cannot even take an even bike over there.

So what is the point of trying to get 18 year old kids ( Learning stars) to spend the money required to build a top spec NZ bike- NONE

Suspension package alone is gunna cost in the range of $5500, complete race pipe $3000, etc, Footrest kits $400.ECU $ 1000 bla bla bla

Stop being so god dam deffensive of your product, and some time start your own thread on this site, instead of just trolling onto whatever everyone else says would ya, we all know how good it can be, BUT IT IS NOT 100% NEEDED

[Robert Taylor]

Boring Robert! We spoke about this idea personally yesterday morning, and I said to you, I think this would be a good way to creat a leed in class to the 600 feild, and keep the bike building cost down by up to $10K Nothing economical with my post at all _ IT WAS FACT AND IS FACT.

You sited, that the rest of world is different, and we should follow suit, I said Bollocks, there is not riders here good enough to really make it on the world scene ( A couple maybe) and as it is, our 600 class rules, do not even work together with Australia, so we cannot even take an even bike over there.

So what is the point of trying to get 18 year old kids ( Learning stars) to spend the money required to build a top spec NZ bike- NONE

Suspension package alone is gunna cost in the range of $5500, complete race pipe $3000, etc, Footrest kits $400.ECU $ 1000 bla bla bla

Stop being so god dam deffensive of your product, and some time start your own thread on this site, instead of just trolling onto whatever everyone else says would ya, we all know how good it can be, BUT IT IS NOT 100% NEEDED

Naturally I disagree ( for very sound reasons )but what I find VERY perplexing is a dredge of posts over the last few months would reveal some very contradictory and mixed messages. And this last one that was ''economical'' was frankly a little mischievous in its intent and you knew only too damn well that it would earn a response.
It is indeed possible to upgrade the oem stuff but they will not reach the levels of high quality aftermarket, performance will not be as stable and myriad other factors such as inability to adjust ride height quickly come into play. And dont even think about proposing same for Superbike, the issues there( as you well realise ) become somewhat exaggerated. But given that the power of 600s increases every year ( and therefore issues of tyre wear and chassis control ) I think it would be a backward step to go back to oem units only, at least in the premier 600 class. What is also overlooked is that purchasing good quality aftermarket suspension is not once only dead money as a very strong second hand resale market exists. In real terms NZ riders cannot complain because they get a higher level of service at lower cost than other countries.
Further, when I look into what it will cost to PROPERLY respec oem units with springs, spring adaptation pieces, revalves ( maybe pistons ) and checkvalve shaftjets etc the ''saving'' is not going to be highly significant. But in all fairness I am going to analyse this further and will reserve final judgement.
What you are saying will be music to the ears of some but I fear that the full implications are not fully realised. I have no wish to launch into a great long diatribe for the very reasons that you defended me in another thread, mainly time. If you also do a dredge of my threads you will find that I have offered a LOT of help to people, primarily. And as you say in my own time. And yes, I have found it neccessary to defend at times because of either mischief or I guess the great NZ knocking machine.

[Shaun]

Naturally I disagree ( for very sound reasons )but what I find VERY perplexing is a dredge of posts over the last few months would reveal some very contradictory and mixed messages. And this last one that was ''economical'' was frankly a little mischievous in its intent and you knew only too damn well that it would earn a response.
It is indeed possible to upgrade the oem stuff but they will not reach the levels of high quality aftermarket, performance will not be as stable and myriad other factors such as inability to adjust ride height quickly come into play. And dont even think about proposing same for Superbike, the issues there( as you well realise ) become somewhat exaggerated. But given that the power of 600s increases every year ( and therefore issues of tyre wear and chassis control ) I think it would be a backward step to go back to oem units only, at least in the premier 600 class. What is also overlooked is that purchasing good quality aftermarket suspension is not once only dead money as a very strong second hand resale market exists. In real terms NZ riders cannot complain because they get a higher level of service at lower cost than other countries.
Further, when I look into what it will cost to PROPERLY respec oem units with springs, spring adaptation pieces, revalves ( maybe pistons ) and checkvalve shaftjets etc the ''saving'' is not going to be highly significant. But in all fairness I am going to analyse this further and will reserve final judgement.
What you are saying will be music to the ears of some but I fear that the full implications are not fully realised. I have no wish to launch into a great long diatribe for the very reasons that you defended me in another thread, mainly time. If you also do a dredge of my threads you will find that I have offered a LOT of help to people, primarily. And as you say in my own time. And yes, I have found it neccessary to defend at times because of either mischief or I guess the great NZ knocking machine.

OK DAD, I will stop trying to help our sport by getting everyones oppinion, and young up and coming riders then, and leave them all to you

[Robert Taylor]

OK DAD, I will stop trying to help our sport by getting everyones oppinion, and young up and coming riders then, and leave them all to you

No you miss the point and being patronising is not a becoming quality! We are all trying to help the sport ( ! ) and have the track records to back that statement up. But I dont think enough homework is ever done re the overall technical implications and decisions are often made without adequate conultation. I also cannot help the feeling that if you actually have an intimate understanding of the internals of suspension units and lots of experience there is almost a sector of society that is ( effectively )condescending about it. Those are the vibes that I get.

[Shaun]

NO you miss the point, you are a technician importer, ( Not a dam english teacher, and fuck off with your Patronising remarks) I am an x rider who has history and pedigree with you and many other suspension techs around the world, Including Ohlins direct when I was a 250 Grand prix team manger many years ago, K-Teck in the UK, and others, and still have the references you wrote for me, to try and become a test rider direct for Ohlin;s, OK this did not work out, But you had enough faith in me then, So why hassle me when I am just looking into idea's to try and help our sport grow more. O that is it, Ohlins NZ would loose some sales, BUGGER.

How many riders were on the grid this year in NZ, with fully sponsored suspension from you?

I have been an officuall test rider for the BRITTEN team, and have been employed many times over seas over the years, to be a test rider for people, to try and help develop there bikes settings, for there riders, who cannot give the feed back required to develop it further. Jamie Whitham is one bike I set up with Mick Grant for him.

So honestly, I am just looking at all options ( Apart from just making money) to try and help develop our sport further, and to show as many people that want to try it, that STD can be made work ok, NOT AS GOOD AS Aftermarket, AS I KEEP SAYING, but it is good.

I would doubt that out of 1000 riders in NZ, that 50 of them, could honestly push after market Race spec gear to the limits of it on the road, ( I COULD, But only in places like Wanganui) in a racing enviroment. Not just generall road hoons, which yes, I did go out on regually with my race bikes for a blast

Yea, so After market will make the generall ride better, ride height control ( Make a spacer)

SAGS, ( CHANGE YOUR SPRINGS) Hard to find, but can be found.

BASIC STD SET UP WELL, WILL WORK VERY WELL ON THE ROADS!!

Or am I wrong or misinformed, that the 1000 I won on at the TT, had different springs and oil weight ONLY- O yes, it did have a STD Ohlins rear shock in it, I guess that was what made the STD modified front work eh

[slowpoke]

our 600 class rules, do not even work together with Australia, so we cannot even take an even bike over there.

Our Supersport rules don't tie in with Australian Supersport rules but Australia also has a Superstock class, which is basically 600's with very limited modifications....compared to Supersport machines they are much like Pro Twins are to F3 bikes in NZ. It sounds very much like what you've got in mind Shaun.

[Teambwr47]

Blimey you two have some spats on here don't you.....

Its like father and son sometimes.... Shaun i can see you value Roberts knowledge and expertise as a technician, while Robert.... well your replies are so restrained to some of the jibes, that you must have the patience of a saint.

Shaun i can see you're very keen to help riders here in NZ progress and a rider of your experience getting involved in such a fashion is nothing but commendable.

Just as well we all know that you two do actually get on ok most of the time because if we didn't, based on some of the posts here, there'd be a crowd at the circuits waiting the fistycuffs to break out.

[Bren_chch]

I have been an officuall test rider for the BRITTEN team, and have been employed many times over seas over the years, to be a test rider for people, to try and help develop there bikes settings, for there riders, who cannot give the feed back required to develop it further. Jamie Whitham is one bike I set up with Mick Grant for him.

now this is exactly why i asked you to please add your profile to my road racing profile website, so people can read your interesting race history, sheeesh!!! how hard is it... sign up! www.visordown.co.nz people are genuinly interested to read about all past and present racer bio's!!

[Bren_chch]

fuck it!

PS: I really like the idea of a stock series!!! I was lucky enuff to be given a pretty road std 2006 gsxr1000 to compete in the nationals and with the only mods being a airfilter, a slipon and WP front and rear suspension, I was over the moon to be able to compete in the series on a 12 -14k bike + tires! I had a ball, i'd never even been on a superbike until 3 weeks before the nationals started yet i still managed to get a 1:34 around ruapuna, which to be honest is pretty farken fast!!! and considering i'd only ever rode on timaru and ruapuna on my old cbr i set some pretty respectable times on the other circuits!! i'd done a few clubmans rounds on my 1992 cbr900rr and half a season of bucket racing, mixed with pre82 and then to be offered the chance to race in the nationals on a pretty std bike was BRILLIANT in my eyes, other people thought... whats the point, it got no HP and its pretty std!!

Anyhow my point being that there is actually a lot of tallent out there but the talent cant get the chance to shine because of the class costs for serious racing, the amount of experience i gained doing the national rounds was huge and i couldnt put a price on its worth!! I cant afford to do nationals again because the bikes been sold and I couldnt afford a new one, if i did it again i'd for sure want one of the k7's used this season gone, by ray etc... but anyhow if there was a superstock type support class for the 600 or 1000 than i'd really have a chance of competing on a limited budget and i am sure a lot of other people would want to try too!

ok my rant is a little off track but, its something i am passionate about, its going to be even harder to compete as a single when the new bikes come along with traction control etc!

and as for Andrew on the std shock, he is the man legend!! On nationals day 1 practice at ruapuna he even took time out from his practicing to show me around the track with lines / braking, well anything he could! it was fantastic!!!

bah over and out!

[Robert Taylor]

Lets get this straight!

1) Shaun and I do indeed get on pretty well most of the time, we just seem to do our arguing on this forum!

2) It is totally acknowledged that his historical riding skills are excellent and that when he was racing competitively we worked well in optimising the suspension settings together.

3) In the context of 2) above Shaun is not the only top rider that I have had the pleasure of working with and believe me they are all very different. We did a lot of work with Andrew Stroud this season and found his analytical skills to be excellent, indeed Ohlins offered him a job many years back. As another example Robbie Bugden through the season was loathe to change anything even though we insisted we could improve a couple of areas with his bike that could be improved.

4) Stock suspension can be ''externally optimised'' to the rider but you do reach the limits pretty quickly. Particularly if the weight of the rider is ''challenging'' at either extremity.

5) Stock suspension can be improved substanially with internal work and beyond that with selected internal parts. Heck we did exactly that today with a set of older GSXR1000 forks, we modified the stock pistons and revalved. Realtively low cost job, great bang for buck. Candidly we also modified a set of Ohlins forks that are stock fitment in a 1098S.
AGAIN, you get to a certain level of improvement.

6) As I stated in a previous post we are analysing just how much we can improve oem suspension units with selected internal parts. Our shock dyno will assist no end in that endeavour as we have a huge database of Ohlins damping curves that we can attempt to mimic. Frankly though it doesnt excite me about ( maybe ) revalving oem units trackside as they are a whole lot less user friendly to service very quickly than purpose built high quality race shocks. ( This is just one of the many issues that has to be accounted for )

7) If you want the ultimate improvement then high quality high performance aftermarket suspension units are the answer. And there are just some bikes (e.g Hyosung 650, sorry guys ) where you just have to start with a clean sheet of paper.

8) I am not a racer but did ride large capacity road bikes through the 70s and 80s and still test ride the odd bike, so do have a feel for the dynamics. But I have made it my mission in life to abundantly understand the internal function of suspension units and to that end our facility is at the cutting edge in NZ. I really dont want to add up how much I have spent over the years to travel to Sweden to attend Ohlins training courses, also to the US for Race Tech, also to Traxxion Dynamics. Add to that decades of experience.

9) When I reply to a post it is invariably ( and I really hope this doesnt in any way sound arrogant ) because I have had direct experience with the type of suspension unit or model specific problem. If I sometimes sound abrupt then I apologise but it is normally a liturgy of cold hard facts. Use of the word MEDIOCRE may also sound harsh but it does fit as a term of relativity. Advice is offered in the spirit it is given.

10 ) I do happen to love the English language but I think it is unfair to judge people by their speech either written or one to one. Given that our standards of speech and etiquette have declined over the years I guess its a matter of biting ones tongue. I think patience and a calm demeanour are also desirable qualities, as is restraint with expletives.

If anyone at any time has suspension related questions feel free to call me by whatever form of communication. Contrary to what some contributors to this forum have mistakenly believed I do not in fact have a hard sell approach and can offer varying levels of solutions / improvements at varying costs. That is what our suspension company is in fact all about.