2005 600cc Sport production results

[CHOPPA]

I think Brian Bernard and Dave Cole might disagree with you there as examples of people that have onsold their 600s recently. These were sold with all the kit on them but you can appreciate more return very often by onselling the up-spec parts seperately. This second hand market for up-spec parts at considerably less than retail helps to reduce costs for many.
Racing 600cc and up stock bikes is fraught with more technical and set up problems than most people realise, mark my words.

The thing is that a stock class would bring more racers to the scene then when they already have the bike and fairings etc and are racing they will realise the pitfalls you talk of then its not that much extra to just chuck in suspension and a full exhaust as those 2 items are pretty much the only diff.....

[Robert Taylor]

The thing is that a stock class would bring more racers to the scene then when they already have the bike and fairings etc and are racing they will realise the pitfalls you talk of then its not that much extra to just chuck in suspension and a full exhaust as those 2 items are pretty much the only diff.....

I hear what you are saying and you know I have experienced sales of high dollar items to a level I really didnt expect. We used to sell Traxxion cartridges at less than $2000 a set, I thought that was ''up there''. Then Dave Cole ordered Ohlins cartridges for Sam Smith which shall we say cost appreciably more. Well, the things worked so well and are so well engineered and user friendly that we have now sold rather a lot, including into Formula 3.
As I pointed out in a previous post I dont think it is ALL about everyones favourite bogey, cost.

[Shaun]

The thing is that a stock class would bring more racers to the scene then when they already have the bike and fairings etc and are racing they will realise the pitfalls you talk of then its not that much extra to just chuck in suspension and a full exhaust as those 2 items are pretty much the only diff.....

You have my total attention there Choppa, this is a really good way of bringing more riders into the game, at a lower level entry fee

Robert, you mentioned peoples little favourite thing COSTS, well this is for real mate, it is to bloody exspensive these days to even just get going out there. ( I know you know, but perhaps have not thought it through fully, full the customers point of view, COSTS AGAIN

K6/7 600 Retail $ 14-000
Shock $ 2500
Fork kit $ 2500
Pipe $3000
Footrest kit $400-00
Fairings $900-00
ECU $1000-00
Dyno tune work $500-00
Head Gskt comp $ 500-00

Total $ 25,300,00 AND THAT IS A CHEAP ONE!!!!!!

The above prices are realistic fact, so how many 18 year olds do we have that can spend $25-000K and then live, eat, tyres, petrol, pies etc etc etc Jack shit

The standard class idea brings the above costings down to around $15-000
am sure there are a lot more that could afford this.

Scott41, mentioned the dealer net work, I believe they would be more inclined to support loonies, if the costings and set up was a lot easier less exspensive just to be involved.

[R1madness]

Excuse me but are you qualified to make such statements? Do you have a hidden agenda for trying to push these opinions?

Actually yes i am qualified to make such statements. Having been a racer for 17 years and a mechanic for 20 years as well as Stroudys pit mechanic for the last 7 years. Whats your gualifications??????

Have a look at my signature. I am not trying to push my opinions on you. We only sell used inports so i dont have an axe to grind on brands or shit.

How do you dumb down a bike? Take out its ECU?

I just think its a bit rich calling the class production when there are huge modifications allowed. The idea was to create a lower cost, highly competitive, class using bikes that were instantly recognisable as the bikes that are ridden on the street. Come and have a look at one in the pits sometime and tell me what bits you are likely to find on your street bike. As for engine mods well its an open book. The offical team suzuki bikes have about 9 more HP than the best of the private bikes. One racer that i help who achieved a top 10 placing in the 600 class nationals has quit racing because he can not get a motor worth running for the next year. NO point in racing if you cant compete. No its not a money thing either. He has the cash but has been told in no uncirtain terms that he is not getting a top suzuki motor for next year despite finishing as top privateer and being a former national champ (in another class).

[Shaun]

now this is exactly why i asked you to please add your profile to my road racing profile website, so people can read your interesting race history, sheeesh!!! how hard is it... sign up! www.visordown.co.nz people are genuinly interested to read about all past and present racer bio's!!

Doing it Boss

[Tony.OK]

I think a class like this sounds great,not only for 'young' riders either.I'm 35 and have just started,I don't earn huge dollars,but am an ok rider,I've already overspent what I can afford on my bike and know that it hasn't got a shit show of competing with the big boys.
Just watching the Pukie Nats rnd showed that money makes alot of the difference to who's up the front.
Taking the "biggest budget" side of the equation away and leaving "rider skill" as the main objective sounds like fun close racing.
I would even go as far to suggest a one make series,look how many types of car racing series there are now,and how close the races are.
Just my 2c though..............now off to the nearest Lotto shop

[GSVR]

Actually yes i am qualified to make such statements. Having been a racer for 17 years and a mechanic for 20 years as well as Stroudys pit mechanic for the last 7 years. Whats your gualifications??????

Sarcasm. I knew you had something to say so I wanted to quote it and get Robert Taylor and others to give their comments.

If you read back on some of the previous threads on the matters being discussed here you should find that I agree with your statements.

As a newcomer to the sport its not good when you have people that have been involved in the sport for years giving totally opposing views. I sometimes wonder what the motive is for this as surely you guys should all know a bit about tyre wear etc by now..

As you said in your post "Production racing" used to be just that some years ago. What was the reason for changing the rules?

If you haven't seen this page I suggest you read it. A top racer explains why its not a good idea use Stock Bikes and my famous Dumb Down quote is there too.

"I for one am not interested in ''dumbing down'' the premier classes. That is stated from a technical and safety perspective."

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...classes&page=5

[Bren_chch]

Actually yes i am qualified to make such statements. Having been a racer for 17 years and a mechanic for 20 years as well as Stroudys pit mechanic for the last 7 years. Whats your gualifications??????

All that and u still cant spell for shit!

One racer that i help who achieved a top 10 placing in the 600 class nationals has quit racing because he can not get a motor worth running for the next year. NO point in racing if you cant compete. No its not a money thing either. He has the cash but has been told in no uncirtain terms that he is not getting a top suzuki motor for next year despite finishing as top privateer and being a former national champ (in another class).

mmm u made it easy to pick who that is! Shame to see him go!

[Toast]

I just think its a bit rich calling the class production when there are huge modifications allowed. The idea was to create a lower cost, highly competitive, class using bikes that were instantly recognisable as the bikes that are ridden on the street. Come and have a look at one in the pits sometime and tell me what bits you are likely to find on your street bike. As for engine mods well its an open book. The offical team suzuki bikes have about 9 more HP than the best of the private bikes. One racer that i help who achieved a top 10 placing in the 600 class nationals has quit racing because he can not get a motor worth running for the next year. NO point in racing if you cant compete. No its not a money thing either. He has the cash but has been told in no uncirtain terms that he is not getting a top suzuki motor for next year despite finishing as top privateer and being a former national champ (in another class).

My opinion: Rossi could probably take that bike and clean up the Nat's...so what's the issue? Why spend your time trying to spank little fish when you could possibly learn more and get good enough to take on some bigger fish. Bugden won Superbike races in Aus as a privateer.

[R1madness]

All that and u still cant spell for shit!

hahahaha yea mate i know but i can usually get my point across.

Look its true that we have differences of opinion on racing, Bikes, brands, causes, solutions, ideas, colour schemes. You name it it will get discussed, poked, prodded, and abused all the way to the next nationals. Its a good thing. Debate is healthy for the sport. How else do you think the ideas get support (or otherwise) for the sport to improve.

I am all for a stock shock/ecu/airfilter class. Always have been. But thats only my opinion. Surely i am allowed one?

And seriously GSVR its not sarcasism. You asked what my qualifications were. I told you. Then asked (all be it with poor spelling) what yours are. If you are a nube to racing welcome aboard man, join the fun. Come have a chat with me sometime. Always looking for some friendly discussions around improving the sport. If you have been around for a while and i dont recognize you from your signature sorry man but perhaps you should come out from behind the sig.

[gixerracer]

Actually yes i am qualified to make such statements. Having been a racer for 17 years and a mechanic for 20 years as well as Stroudys pit mechanic for the last 7 years. Whats your gualifications??????

Have a look at my signature. I am not trying to push my opinions on you. We only sell used inports so i dont have an axe to grind on brands or shit.

How do you dumb down a bike? Take out its ECU?

I just think its a bit rich calling the class production when there are huge modifications allowed. The idea was to create a lower cost, highly competitive, class using bikes that were instantly recognisable as the bikes that are ridden on the street. Come and have a look at one in the pits sometime and tell me what bits you are likely to find on your street bike. As for engine mods well its an open book. The offical team suzuki bikes have about 9 more HP than the best of the private bikes. One racer that i help who achieved a top 10 placing in the 600 class nationals has quit racing because he can not get a motor worth running for the next year. NO point in racing if you cant compete. No its not a money thing either. He has the cash but has been told in no uncirtain terms that he is not getting a top suzuki motor for next year despite finishing as top privateer and being a former national champ (in another class).

I dont mean to be rude here but i dont no who the hell you have been talking to about engines but you couldnt be more wrong if you tired to imply the "factory Suzuki boys on 600s have special engines is a complete crock of shit and I no because I am/was one the last season I done on the 600 had an empro yoshi pipe 1 leaf out of stock head gasket standard cam timing and fucking good ohlins and dunlops I still have the lap record at timaru and not bloddy far off at all other tracks people need to pull there head out from there arsses and stop chasing horse power and spend more money doing laps and getting there setup right. Sorry to be rude but it pisses me off when people talk shit when they clearly have been miss informed stop moaning about people that are talented and get out there and STICK IT TO THEM. Dennis charlett won this years 600 class with the empro and exhaust from my previous 600 because he was by far the fastest rider in the class he had no special engine hes just a special guy and if people think it happens over night think again we have all been round for a bloddy long time so if you want to keep up then do what we all done work fucking hard at it sacrifice everything and spend more money a year on your racing than you make in wages.

Craig

[speedracerjimmy]

I dont mean to be rude here but i dont no who the hell you have been talking to about engines but you couldnt be more wrong if you tired to imply the "factory Suzuki boys on 600s have special engines is a complete crock of shit and I no because I am/was one the last season I done on the 600 had an empro yoshi pipe 1 leaf out of stock head gasket standard cam timing and fucking good ohlins and dunlops I still have the lap record at timaru and not bloddy far off at all other tracks people need to pull there head out from there arsses and stop chasing horse power and spend more money doing laps and getting there setup right. Sorry to be rude but it pisses me off when people talk shit when they clearly have been miss informed stop moaning about people that are talented and get out there and STICK IT TO THEM. Dennis charlett won this years 600 class with the empro and exhaust from my previous 600 because he was by far the fastest rider in the class he had no special engine hes just a special guy and if people think it happens over night think again we have all been round for a bloddy long time so if you want to keep up then do what we all done work fucking hard at it sacrifice everything and spend more money a year on your racing than you make in wages.

Craig

I agree with craig.dennis had nothing special in his bike he just rode hard....
not sure what people mean when they say about people having factory bikes in nz.the guys that ride for suzuki or yamaha or whatever have the same stuff done to their bikes that i and the rest of the field have had done.

[R1madness]

I dont mean to be rude here but i dont no who the hell you have been talking to about engines but you couldnt be more wrong if you tired to imply the "factory Suzuki boys on 600s have special engines is a complete crock of shit and I no because I am/was one the last season I done on the 600 had an empro yoshi pipe 1 leaf out of stock head gasket standard cam timing and fucking good ohlins and dunlops I still have the lap record at timaru and not bloddy far off at all other tracks people need to pull there head out from there arsses and stop chasing horse power and spend more money doing laps and getting there setup right. Sorry to be rude but it pisses me off when people talk shit when they clearly have been miss informed stop moaning about people that are talented and get out there and STICK IT TO THEM. Dennis charlett won this years 600 class with the empro and exhaust from my previous 600 because he was by far the fastest rider in the class he had no special engine hes just a special guy and if people think it happens over night think again we have all been round for a bloddy long time so if you want to keep up then do what we all done work fucking hard at it sacrifice everything and spend more money a year on your racing than you make in wages.

Craig

If thats true then please explain why the Official suzuki bikes make at least 9 more hp (on the same dyno by the same dyno operator on the same day)?

I am not questioning the talent of the team riders nor am i moaning about them. Anyone that knows me knows i have a great deal of admiration for these guys (and girls, come on girls). Dennis has talent to burn. He should be on a 1000 next year. James, If he does you have every chance of winning it next year.

However i stand by my coments. I can get a fast motor built by a top NZ engine builder (hi Ray) but he has been told by suzuki that he can not use any of the development work used in the top motors. Also i am not implying that anyone is cheating. There are lots of mods allowed but its getting the combination right that matters. And this is where the top teams have the advantage.

Dennis did win using your last years pipe and empro but it was on this years bike. So what? That just means those parts havn't changed this year but i doubt they will work so well on next years bike.

Anyway we are way off topic now. This was about suspension.

[gixerracer]

If thats true then please explain why the Official suzuki bikes make at least 9 more hp (on the same dyno by the same dyno operator on the same day)?

I am not questioning the talent of the team riders nor am i moaning about them. Anyone that knows me knows i have a great deal of admiration for these guys (and girls, come on girls). Dennis has talent to burn. He should be on a 1000 next year. James, If he does you have every chance of winning it next year.

However i stand by my coments. I can get a fast motor built by a top NZ engine builder (hi Ray) but he has been told by suzuki that he can not use any of the development work used in the top motors. Also i am not implying that anyone is cheating. There are lots of mods allowed but its getting the combination right that matters. And this is where the top teams have the advantage.

Dennis did win using your last years pipe and empro but it was on this years bike. So what? That just means those parts havn't changed this year but i doubt they will work so well on next years bike.

Anyway we are way off topic now. This was about suspension.

If what you say is true which I dont imagine Suzuki saying such a thing as they would like as many of there bikes up the grid as possible it still only relates to superbikes anyway not the 600 class. Buy a motor from Phill Taiton in OZ he builds what ever you are prepared to pay for and would be at a similar cost to get ray to build one.
This years 600 was the same as last years one so I dont get your point there? of course they wont work on the new bike its a different bike.
So anyone thats pulling out of 600s because you cant get a factory motor they dont exsist in the 600 class so keep in there and work hard and all the superbike boys if you can get a motor within 15hp of the top boys trust me its good enough to win on and alot easier to ride

[cowpoos]

If thats true then please explain why the Official suzuki bikes make at least 9 more hp (on the same dyno by the same dyno operator on the same day)?

was in a inertia type dyno Ian?? because gearing can change peak output figures.