2005 600cc Sport production results

[Robert Taylor]

Dont you check yopur private messages?

Indeed I do but have had absolutely no messages from yourself / that subject matter. You can also e-mail to robert@crownkiwi.co.nz I check e-mail more frequently.

[brads]

Shit this is the funnist thing ive read,well today anyway.
Factory engines in NZ 600SP,now thats fucking funny.Having been privilaged enough to have riden for the "Factory" Honda and Suzuki teams here in NZ I can honestly say that Yes there are factory engines out there,in fact this year I will be riding an 08 CBR1000RR with are "Factory" engine.
Where did I get it you ask? Sshh, dont tell anyone but it came with the bike.
In fact the whole bike came from the Factory,Honda Factory in Japan that is.
The reason guys like Jimmy,Dennis etc have faster bikes is that they ride them faster,simple really.

[JJ58]

Scott, that was exactually why I started this thread, to help it grow more.

I have had some interesting private conversations with a few people about this idea. It has been put to me a few times, that we already have a class for my suggestions, and we already have a series for bringing on younger new riders, it is called THE WINTER SERIES

In hindsight ( As per usual) I guess they are correct with there thoughts on this! I guess, if you want to be the man/women out there, you need to do more than others do, to win races Even if it means getting a 3rd job, or borrowing more some where some how, it really is an exspensive game in some ways, but IT IS THE NZ CHAMPS I guess, And suppose we should be trying to lift the level of that Championship, NOT PERHAPS lowering level of it?

I see no benefit to motorcycling in NZ by having a larger 600 field, other than to send potentially competitive international riders broke and unable to compete overseas.... But I'm relatively new to motorcycling, so maybe I'm missing something?

Shaun, I agree with you, you should do more than others to win. However I think this "more than others" should be skill training and working on race craft, not working 3 jobs to get enough finances for your burnt out slipper clutch or to fix your dropped titanium valves etc...

This mentality is why the skilled rider turnover is high in NZ, many skilled riders who make the mistake of going to 600's just go broke or get burnt out (I'm talking about the many how don't receive factory support). If they could stay in the sport then they'd raise the level of competition and drag up and comers through the ranks quicker.

Even with the new proposed 600 class the costs would be the same as, if not more than running a new 600. It's the running costs that's the killer, not just the purchase price.... If anyone disagrees, then they're not riding their 600 hard enough!

With effort being put into further promoting 125/pro twins/F3 instead of trying to start up another 600 class we could see the level of competition grow and be sustainable for new and mature racers, benefiting the NZ racing scene and also benefiting the many talented riders we have in this country. It'll also mean that the barriers for ambitious riders to compete internationally will be lowered, which again is far more beneficial to Motorcyling NZ than having a larger 600 grid.

It doesn't matter how high the level of 600 competition is in NZ, a fast NZ 600 rider would find it difficult to compete overseas in a 600 supersport class without having a sponsored ride. For example, here in Canada it's cheaper than the US, but you would still need a minimum of $40,000CDN to run a season in the Amatuer ranks on a 600. No one on a NZ wage could afford to do that even with the prize money here, especially if they had run the prior season on a 600 in NZ.

However, if they came over and ran one of the lower classes well, they could gain sponsorship to run the AM600 class here. You don't need 600 experience in NZ to run a lower class well!! Especially if the lower classes in NZ are highly competitive!... Get my point?

Let's not continue with our top down thinking!..... Start at the bottom, support our lower classes, get noticed talent overseas and then when we have a racer in MotoGP, use them for promoting motorcycle racing further.


Also: From my discussions with people, spectators don't come out to watch 600's or SBs, they come out to see some great racing, which could be in any class. (1 guy told me he fell asleep watching the 600 and SB races at Ruapuna, but thought the lower classes were fantastic to watch).

Also: (No disrespect to any champ, as in my books you're a legend) However I've been around people when they've won a NZ championship and they've been disspointed as it means didly squat!! There's little kudo's from other racers, there's bugger all prize money, no one outside of racing circles cares (especially now we have an Aussie SB champ), it hardly ever makes the news or papers and it means bugger all when you go overseas... On these grounds it's my advice to young up and comers to get fast in NZ, save your money and go overseas while you still can!!

Robert: I agree with you re the suspension development. We have some good classes for that, including F3 and 125. (F3 being our only class for "real" suspension/chassis development).

I think I'm up to 4 cents now.

[slowpoke]

I see no benefit to motorcycling in NZ by having a larger 600 field, other than to send potentially competitive international riders broke and unable to compete overseas.... But I'm relatively new to motorcycling, so maybe I'm missing something?

My concern is that we get full club grids but not exactly over-subscribed National grids...especially in Superbike. Surely the Nationals events should be the biggest of the year....but it doesn't seem to work out that way. I'm not sure why larger fields would send riders broke....?

Shaun, I agree with you, you should do more than others to win. However I think this "more than others" should be skill training and working on race craft, not working 3 jobs to get enough finances for your burnt out slipper clutch or to fix your dropped titanium valves etc...

These things are standard on road bikes nowadays, if ya broke it ya gotta fix it.... Entirely agree on the skills training but there is a marked lack of such training available in NZ.

This mentality is why the skilled rider turnover is high in NZ, many skilled riders who make the mistake of going to 600's just go broke or get burnt out (I'm talking about the many how don't receive factory support). If they could stay in the sport then they'd raise the level of competition and drag up and comers through the ranks quicker.

I dunno about the skilled rider turnover, I see the problem being a straight lack of skilled riders, fullstop. With the exception of Sam Smith, I can't think of a single rider under 30 who can challenge the same veteran campaigners standing on the podium. Compared to overseas where teenagers are setting the racing world alight.

With effort being put into further promoting 125/pro twins/F3 instead of trying to start up another 600 class we could see the level of competition grow and be sustainable for new and mature racers, benefiting the NZ racing scene and also benefiting the many talented riders we have in this country. It'll also mean that the barriers for ambitious riders to compete internationally will be lowered, which again is far more beneficial to Motorcyling NZ than having a larger 600 grid.

I agree re 125's but I think F3 is a wasted, almost backward step, sucking up valuable time if you are going to get overseas at a young enough age. I reckon if you can turn a quick lap on a 125 then get your arse onto a 600, you'll learn far more than you would on an F3 bike. It's no coincidence that the guys dominating F3 have all stepped back to F3, not stepped up to it.

It doesn't matter how high the level of 600 competition is in NZ, a fast NZ 600 rider would find it difficult to compete overseas in a 600 supersport class without having a sponsored ride. For example, here in Canada it's cheaper than the US, but you would still need a minimum of $40,000CDN to run a season in the Amatuer ranks on a 600. No one on a NZ wage could afford to do that even with the prize money here, especially if they had run the prior season on a 600 in NZ.

I don't see anyone being competitive in a hard fought overseas 600 series, on unfamiliar tracks if they are jumping off an F3 bike in NZ. You need as much exposure as you can get to the most challenging machinery which is 600/1000 whether we like it or not. You also need exposure to the best riders and to measure yourself against the highest standards...no use spending thousands to get over there and finding you are nowhere near as good as you thought you were.

Dom Jones has managed to make a good impression in the States running on a shoe string budget...you can make an impression without spending top dollar.

However, if they came over and ran one of the lower classes well, they could gain sponsorship to run the AM600 class here. You don't need 600 experience in NZ to run a lower class well!! Especially if the lower classes in NZ are highly competitive!... Get my point?

I'm not convinced...why would you go overseas if you haven't proven yourself against the best in NZ?

Let's not continue with our top down thinking!..... Start at the bottom, support our lower classes, get noticed talent overseas and then when we have a racer in MotoGP, use them for promoting motorcycle racing further.

It's not top down thinking, surely we need premier classes for for riders to aspire to? You have the fastest bikes, ridden by the best racers in the land, to prove who are our best and brightest racers. Would you have the NZ Grand Prix raced by F3 bikes or street stocks?

On these grounds it's my advice to young up and comers to get fast in NZ, save your money and go overseas while you still can!!

Couldn't agree more...but to prove you are seriously fast you need to have ridden a seriously fast bike which in my mind needs to be at least a 600 and preferably a 1000.

...................

[JJ58]

I can see this conversation just going around in circles, and regardless of who agrees with who/what is right it's all just going to be talk. It's unlikely any action will be taken from this thread. We all want the same thing long term, but just have a different view on how to acheive it....... I've run out of cash so I'm signing off @ 6 cents :-)

[Robert Taylor]

I can see this conversation just going around in circles, and regardless of who agrees with who/what is right it's all just going to be talk. It's unlikely any action will be taken from this thread. We all want the same thing long term, but just have a different view on how to acheive it....... I've run out of cash so I'm signing off @ 6 cents :-)

Hey I thought your last detailed post was very perceptive of the realities.

[moT]

so how much would it cost for a race winning 600cc bike aswell as expences for running it for a season? and this is why im going to china to race in the CSBK there is more oppertunities

[jrandom]

im going to china to race in the CSBK there is more oppertunities

More opportunities to get easy Chinese pussy, maybe.

Dunno about advancement in the racing world.

Still, there's a lot to be said for easy Chinese pussy.

[moT]

More opportunities to get easy Chinese pussy, maybe.

Dunno about advancement in the racing world.

Still, there's a lot to be said for easy Chinese pussy.

lol... well i plan to move to HK soon anyway and i dont wanna give up racing so racing in china will be sweet

[Robert Taylor]

lol... well i plan to move to HK soon anyway and i dont wanna give up racing so racing in china will be sweet

When I lived in London on the early 80s I can well remember an advertising slogan that a travel agent had at the time....''Visit Russia before Russia visits you'' I think that mentality can be paraphrased. Very sad and very true.

[svr]

Getting back to boring old motorbikes for a second - isnt the best race bike class the fastest for your dollar? (without being stupid)
i.e. $14 k production 600s for say 1:10s at Manfield is a pretty good deal right?
better than 30k F3 bikes for 1:13s, or 20k protwins for 1:15s?
And there are 5 manufacturers currently building seeming pupose-built track bikes, etc. etc.
Just a thought.

[Robert Taylor]

Getting back to boring old motorbikes for a second - isnt the best race bike class the fastest for your dollar? (without being stupid)
i.e. $14 k production 600s for say 1:10s at Manfield is a pretty good deal right?
better than 30k F3 bikes for 1:13s, or 20k protwins for 1:15s?
And there are 5 manufacturers currently building seeming pupose-built track bikes, etc. etc.
Just a thought.

Maybe Im missing something or am having brain fadeor am just over-tired, what are these purpose built track bikes? ( This is a genuine question )

[cowpoos]

Getting back to boring old motorbikes for a second - isnt the best race bike class the fastest for your dollar? (without being stupid)
i.e. $14 k production 600s for say 1:10s at Manfield is a pretty good deal right?
better than 30k F3 bikes for 1:13s, or 20k protwins for 1:15s?
And there are 5 manufacturers currently building seeming pupose-built track bikes, etc. etc.
Just a thought.

1:10 on a stock 600? that would be bloody impressive!!

[Robert Taylor]

1:10 on a stock 600? that would be bloody impressive!!

Indeed, especially if you could get the tyres to last more than a couple of laps

[svr]

Maybe Im missing something or am having brain fadeor am just over-tired, what are these purpose built track bikes? ( This is a genuine question )

600 production bikes (that is the thread). They are developed and tested primarily on race tracks, right?
Has anyone sane taken an R6 touring with the wife on the back recently? Me neither. A ridiculous road bike really.
R6s (and CBRs, ZX-6s etc.) seem to work remarkably well at the track though (what does it cost to get a `proper race car' to do 10s at Manfield?).
They work so well `standard' (yes that horrible word) that it costs the original purchase price to improve one by 3 seconds faster around a track.
Around 2002 all of the japanese manufacturers made statements to the effect that their 600s were now developed to maximize their racetrack performance, with road performance openly compromised.
That was my point - this perfomance is now readily available at a low price point.

As a negative point to the 600 production case however, and one Robert you could shed some light on - I read in a magazine today that suspension tuners have noticed that original equipment suspension has actually lowered in quality over the last couple of years, as if manufacturers just expect racers or anyone serious to just bin the fork cartridges and shocks for aftermarket replacements (??) A worrying trend.