the "trust" factor when cornering

**Lee Rusty** · 22nd August 2003, 14:41

I see you ride a TZR 3XV - I have a good straight frame and rear shock for one of those, can I interest you.

**andy1** · 22nd August 2003, 18:35

...

**MrMelon** · 22nd August 2003, 21:32

Originally posted by Lee Rusty
I see you ride a TZR 3XV - I have a good straight frame and rear shock for one of those, can I interest you.

My frame and rear shock are well straight.. and I'm planning to keep it that way!! :P

**Marmoot** · 22nd August 2003, 22:18

Originally posted by wkid_one
Does that include dragging along the ground when the bike is rapidly shedding fairing without rider?

YES! IT MEANS THE ROAD IS BLOODY BASTARDLY GOOD!!!!!

**Lee Rusty** · 22nd August 2003, 22:53

Fair enuff - lets hope so - just thought I'd let you know.

**Slim** · 25th August 2003, 09:15

Originally posted by Lee Rusty
guilty

yep thats me - I won $5 bet by taking the GN on the SCRR

had to carry the BBq as well

Still got Honda outfit - same chair different bike.

so whos the enquiring mind

CBR600 - COuld be a Warwick -???

You took me on my first Blood Run on the back of the Honda, with Donna in the sidecar unit, some ahem 10+ years ago.

13 years! I didn't have a bike at the time, or a licence for that matter, but was riding anything my mates would lend to me, and ended up putting a lot of kms on an RG400 during the next couple of years.

I eventually had to get my licence, if I wanted to buy a bike on finance, and brought a GB250 that did me well for a couple of years, before getting my full licence and an older GSXR400.

I've had my CBR6 for almost 5 years now, and just loving it.

Nice to see you found KiwiBiker. I hope to catch up some time in the near future.

**Motu** · 25th August 2003, 09:44

While we are getting personal Lee Rusty - have you also had a Volkswaggon powered Ural outfit?

**Lee Rusty** · 25th August 2003, 19:02

so who is the enquiring mind - gotta name - do I know you?

**Lee Rusty** · 25th August 2003, 19:07

sorry I didnt see your reply - yep I remeber you - I saw you in Te Kuiti a couple of years back at the Wheel roadhouse if I remember right.

Sorry I didnt look close enuff the first time and see the "girl" symbol - and thought you might be Warwick.

**Lee Rusty** · 25th August 2003, 19:11

Yep thats me as well - if you know where that outfit is now I would be keen to reacquire it.

Last time I heard it was in Waiuku area and it was crashed at beach races.
not sure how reliable that info is

So who is behind Motu - gotta name I might recognise - you can use private of email if you want to be anon.

What it is to known huh ? But I do like to know who im talking to.

**Motu** · 25th August 2003, 20:15

We did a swapparoo - I got a nice CB750,you got something not on most peoples wish list.Shit,that was an insane piece of work wasn't it? I want it back too! I went to spend the next 10yrs or more on Waiheke Island the next week - wish I had of kept the outfit,it was much more suited to the rough roads than a CB750.Swapped the Honda for a bloody car!

I came across a tall lanky guy on a Shovel once who had a picture of it in his collection of past bikes - where did it go from you?

You used to come up to my shop on 100cc bikes - I recon if they got that far they passed the test! Good to make contact with you all these years later,something I'm doing a bit of since coming back to the smoke in '96.

Psst! got any photos of it - people just don't believe me when I tell them about it!

**Lee Rusty** · 25th August 2003, 20:55

this is getting interesting - more like the old friends site
people I know coming out of the woodwork.
A pleasure it is too - being able to catch up with old mates - and the odd pretty blonde dont go astray either.

However it seems Motu doesnt know where the old VW sidecar outfit is - does anyone else.

**Motu** · 25th August 2003, 22:45

Roy Gardener had one too,but his was much nicer than old Metalstorm.

I have family in Waiuku,time for some sniffing.

**Duke of Rogan** · 25th August 2003, 22:59

crikey, someone should introduce you guys to the Private message feature of the forum, or even email :-)

nice to see the inter-web bringing people together

anyways, Lee, any chance of a brief informative blurb on the "principals of countersteering" ?

was I close when I said something like: "turning the handles one direction results in the bike going the other, and using this with the appropriate amount of leaning results in better cornering." ?

what I'd like to achieve is to get the feeling that the bike is taking me through the corner, and I'm not wrestling it around sort of thing...

**wkid_one** · 25th August 2003, 23:44

Short and technical answer: the term is GYROSCOPIC PRECESSION. The motion of the wheels makes the bike lean opposite the direction of the bars, thus when you turn the bars to the right, the motorcycle leans to the left. Something about the resistance of the path of travel (inertia?) and centrifugal force. I don't know how it works, it just does. It's sort of like religion that way. For detailed explanations of gyroscopic precession, maybe contact a physicist.

For the long (and more useful) answer: it's important to understand, and most people do not, that countersteering doesn't TURN the bike, it only LEANS the bike. The bike actually turns like you think it should, by pointing the tire in the direction you want to turn. You just can't tell you're doing it.

A bike has to lean to turn (to overpower centrifugal force and gyroscopic precession), right? You could use your body weight to lean the bike, but that's not very efficient, especially if you need to do it quickly. (That's why so many untrained riders crash - they're trying to lean the bike, but just can't do it fast enough for the bad situation they've let themselves get into.) To lean the bike QUICKLY, countersteering is the way to go. Press left, go left. You know the drill.

What happens is the bike leans over to the left with the front tire pointed to the right, and then, because of gravity or whatever pulling the tire downward, the front tire eventually does turn toward the left. The bike wouldn't turn if it didn't! When you're finally making your turn, the handlebars are turned in the correct direction (pointed left to go left) but you can't feel it, because now the tire is trying to go farther left (gravity rearing it's ugly head?), and you need continued pressure on the left handgrip to keep in from leaning and turning further! That's why it feels as if you're continuing to turn the bars to the right.

You can prove this to yourself with your bike in the garage. Stand behind the bike, with the handlebars squared and the front tire pointed straight forward, and hold on to the back grab rail or whatever. Pretend the bike is going straight down the road. You may have to have somebody help you. Now, without holding onto the handlebars, carefully lean the bike to the left (DON'T drop it!) As the lean angle increases, the front tire is pulled down, turning the handlebars to the left. You can even simulate countersteering by initially turning the bars a little to the right, then leaning the bike left. The front tire will still turn left.

Summary: you countersteer to lean, not turn. It's just one of those things you shouldn't think about too much.

Not my words - but you get the idea