Scooter pillion laws

[Gubb]

Well done, now can you tell me where Wally is?

[HungusMaximist]

Ahh, so is this yes, people can carry passengers on a moped?

I get the feeling with a passenger on a moped, you ant gonna get anywhere very fast...

[scootnz]

I think you misunderstood.

It's not "as of September 2007".

That was the date that consultation closed on changing the rules that currently allow moped riders with car learner licences to carry a pillion.

So currently you can technically carry a pillion on a moped (if it has a seat and footpegs for a pillion), if you have a car learner licence.

[Romeo]

So currently you can technically carry a pillion on a moped (if it has a seat and footpegs for a pillion), if you have a car learner licence.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I was saying more along the lines of "At this date it was legal - so best you check yourself". I'll try and sort out my post though.

[xwhatsit]

I think you misunderstood.

It's not "as of September 2007".

That was the date that consultation closed on changing the rules that currently allow moped riders with car learner licences to carry a pillion.

So currently you can technically carry a pillion on a moped (if it has a seat and footpegs for a pillion), if you have a car learner licence.

What about if you've got a learner/restricted bike licence only?

[scootnz]

That would seem pretty clear and simple - on a learner and restricted
motorcycle licence you cannot legally carry a pillion.

If you had a car licence and were caught on a moped with a pillion, you
could possibly claim you were not breaking any rules. I don't know which
licence type would take precedence.

It seems that the rules for mopeds have remained unchanged for a long
time, while many changes have been made incrementally to motorcycle
licence rules (without anyone looking at the overall result) - resulting
in this conflict of rules, which they're going to fix soon anyway.

What about if you've got a learner/restricted
bike licence only?

[Romeo]

EMAIL FROM Land Transport NZ

Good Afternoon ,

Thank you for your email dated 29 April 2008.

Legislation does not clearly state that the holder of a class 1 licence (of any stage) is permitted to carry passengers when operating a moped nor does it forbid the carriage of passengers when operating a moped. Where a licence holder holds both class 1 licence (of any stage) and class 6 graduated licence, legislation does not clarify which licence class must be used when operating a moped.

This legislative gap will be address in the Omnibus Rule 2007, which still has not been passed into law. The link to this Rule can be found on your forum.

The police may choose to ticket the person where they hold both class 1 (of any stage) and class 6 graduated licence if they are carrying passengers on a moped. If the driver disputes the Police's decision to issue the ticket, the driver can appeal through the Courts. The Courts will then decide the outcome based on the facts of each case.

The Police also have the option of exercising "constabulary discretion" and not issue a ticket.

Either way this is a decision for the Police as to whether or not a ticket is issued and a decision for the Courts as to whether or not the Police's decision is upheld.

Land Transport New Zealand recommend the individual comply with the conditions of the class 6 graduated licence. This will ensure they are full compliant with legislation - thus removing any risk of being ticketed for carrying pillion passengers.

I hope this information is helpful.


Kind regards

Senior Customer Service Representative
Contact Centre

Source: Land Transport NZ: Section 2

SO, now I ask, wtf?

It's not technically illegal, but not technically legal either. So this is just bloody brilliant isn't it.

[scootnz]

I don't see any point in getting hung up about it - or do you actually want to carry a pillion on a moped?

[Ixion]

I think you misunderstood.

It's not "as of September 2007".

That was the date that consultation closed on changing the rules that currently allow moped riders with car learner licences to carry a pillion.

So currently you can technically carry a pillion on a moped (if it has a seat and footpegs for a pillion), if you have a car learner licence.

That is correct. It is an oversight. They wrote a law that forbade class 6L or 6R to carry passengers.

Then they wrote a law that said you could ride a moped on a class 1 licence.

But forgot that the class 1L rules do not explicitly forbid carrying passengers (as class 6L and 6R do) . Because in a CAR a class 1L must have a qualified instructor sitting alongside. So, in a car you can carry a passenger on a class 1L. Riding a moped on a class 1L , you are permitted to not have an instructor along. And they forgot to add "but can't carry a passenger".

Class 1F ditto. Class 1R, you can only take a passenger in a car if they hold a full class 1. Ditto for riding a moped on a class 1R. The passenger must have a full class 1 (not a full class 6. Duh ).

Absurd, isn't it. And we trust these people with sharp implements.

General legal rule is that which is not forbidden is permitted. So if you hold a full class1 you may take a pillion on a moped, regardless of any class 6.

LTSA are not going to come and and publically say that. Because it would mean they would have to admit that they have embarassingly cocked up.

Stupid ?Yes. Legal ? Yes

[Max Preload]

Then they wrote a law that said you could ride a moped on a class 1 licence.

But forgot that the class 1L rules do not explicitly forbid carrying passengers (as class 6L and 6R do) . Because in a CAR a class 1L must have a qualified instructor sitting alongside. So, in a car you can carry a passenger on a class 1L. Riding a moped on a class 1L , you are permitted to not have an instructor along. And they forgot to add "but can't carry a passenger".

Class 1F ditto. Class 1R, you can only take a passenger in a car if they hold a full class 1. Ditto for riding a moped on a class 1R. The passenger must have a full class 1 (not a full class 6. Duh ).

Absurd, isn't it. And we trust these people with sharp implements.

This one is equally bad, yet amusing. Proposal 13 of the 'Land Transport (Road User) Amendment Rule [2009] Rule 61001/4'

"Subclause 6.8(1) of the Rule prohibits any person from stopping, standing or parking a vehicle within 6 m of a bus stop sign. The Rule does not expressly except buses. The proposed amendment will clarify this."

Note 'Proposal 20' also...

PROPOSAL. It is proposed to amend the Rule to require drivers of mopeds and motorcycles to use headlamps or, if fitted, daytime running lamps, during daylight hours.

I shall be making a submission regarding that as once again they're punishing the victim.

[Matt_TG]

Hiya

My daughter's friend has just been done for $400 for carrying a pillion with a 1L licence. I've pointed him to this thread and looked on the LTSA site and can't see that the Land Transport Rule: Omnibus Amendment 2007 - Rule 10003 has actually been passed.

I've suggested that he write in and challenge it - unless someone knows whether things have changed yet?

Cheers

[scootnz]

That may depend on if the daughter's friend was riding a moped (N) or a motorcycle (G).

[Matt_TG]

It's a moped... Sym something or other, no WOF required. It's registered as a moped and has room for a pillion and areas for the passenger's feet. I've written a letter to Police on the rider's behalf, we'll see how it goes.

[Aure]

Sorry to Necro, but I was wondering if there was any update on the laws - hopefully I can still legally have a pillion passenger on a moped with my class 1L license?

[Gibbo89]

Sorry to Necro, but I was wondering if there was any update on the laws - hopefully I can still legally have a pillion passenger on a moped with my class 1L license?

i doubt it...