Gordon Copeland is an arse

[onearmedbandit]

Yes - but why? Using your argument below - if it's only virtual... wouldn't you stand for the rights of anyone wanting to do that?

Ok you're calling me out on it, so I'll stand my ground. Yes, if it has no consequences to anyone or their property then if they are doing it in their own home, then go for it. I would never touch Heroin in real life, but if there was a game that simulated it's use I'd give it a go. However if there was a game that simulated child abuse I wouldn't go near it. Simply because they are my standards, the operative word being 'my'. As long as it harms no one else or their property.

OK - point take (thanks). What about shooting cops? Stealing cars, running people over?

Yip, you can shoot cops, steal cars and run people over. But in GTA if you shoot a cop, steal a car, or run someone over the consequences are small and avoidable. Not like real life.

No argument there, and I suggest that a number of those are simply looking for a cop out.

That said - I don't think it's causative, it's normative like I previously mentioned. It doesn't make you do that shite, but it supresses some the alarm bells that would have gone off when someone gets pissed off and wants to run someone down.

If' it's a familiar action... the training is there and it sure makes it easier.

I agree with this point. However there are other things that society condones that should get our attention first, like for instance how acceptable alcohol abuse is today.

At the end of the day, how much violence is caused by games or movies compared to that of alcohol. Yes I know it's not alcohols fault, rather those that can not handle it. But those people seem to be of a higher number than those that can not tell the difference between real life and a game.

I'm sick of the witch hunts against games and movies when it is considered socially acceptable to get shit faced on a weekend with alcohol. Go into any town centre on a weekend and witness the violence, violence which has far greater effects on innocent people than a stupid 2D game.

[ManDownUnder]

I still fail to see how going out in the bush hunting in your spare time, not out of need but out of pleasure/desire/whatever you wanna call it, prepares you for the reality of being in mortal peril, fighting for your life and an objective on some generic battlefield in cyberspace. Can you explain that to me?

Hunting prepares one for mortal combat through the simple process of knowing what you and your weapon of choice are capable of when it comes to choose if and how you are going to use it.

The only mortal danger an Xbox presents is the possibility of a nasty shock when you plug it in. If you go "bang dead" online, how hard is it to have another go?

What about in real (mortal) combat? Bang Dead is the end - forever... and I question if non hunting gamers can really have that perspective.

[vifferman]

I don't think it's causative, it's normative like I previously mentioned. It doesn't make you do that shite, but it supresses some the alarm bells that would have gone off when someone gets pissed off and wants to run someone down.

If' it's a familiar action... the training is there and it sure makes it easier.

Quite possibly correct.
Troglodyte #2 (a keen computer gamer) currently doesn't have a licence: last year he did a runner when a cop went to pull him over to have a word with him about his driving.
I'm quite sure if you asked him, he'd say that he can distinguish fantasy from reality, and that computer gaming doesn't influence his thinking/actions, but I'm not so sure.

I don't think the loss of licence and $1200 in fines have made an appreciable dent in his attitude either.

[ManDownUnder]

Ok you're calling me out on it, so I'll stand my ground. Yes, if it has no consequences to anyone or their property then if they are doing it in their own home, then go for it. I would never touch Heroin in real life, but if there was a game that simulated it's use I'd give it a go. However if there was a game that simulated child abuse I wouldn't go near it. Simply because they are my standards, the operative word being 'my'. As long as it harms no one else or their property.

All good - and the bit in bold is the thing that concerns me. I've seen this stuff really slam abuse victims, and for society as a whole to say something is ok because it's only simluated gives them the feeling that society actually doesn't care - and I take that as not a bad point!

Yip, you can shoot cops, steal cars and run people over. But in GTA if you shoot a cop, steal a car, or run someone over the consequences are small and avoidable. Not like real life.

Again - another problem

I agree with this point. However there are other things that society condones that should get our attention first, like for instance how acceptable alcohol abuse is today.

At the end of the day, how much violence is caused by games or movies compared to that of alcohol. Yes I know it's not alcohols fault, rather those that can not handle it. But those people seem to be of a higher number than those that can not tell the difference between real life and a game.

I'm sick of the witch hunts against games and movies when it is considered socially acceptable to get shit faced on a weekend with alcohol. Go into any town centre on a weekend and witness the violence, violence which has far greater effects on innocent people than a stupid 2D game.

Agreed except I modify it slightly - this is something that should get our attention also (instead of first).

[Mikkel]

Hunting prepares one for mortal combat through the simple process of knowing what you and your weapon of choice are capable of when it comes to choose if and how you are going to use it.

The only mortal danger an Xbox presents is the possibility of a nasty shock when you plug it in. If you go "bang dead" online, how hard is it to have another go?

What about in real (mortal) combat? Bang Dead is the end - forever... and I question if non hunting gamers can really have that perspective.

Well, I doubt any amount of hunting would make you gain a proper perspective of "Bang Dead is the end - forever"... Unless you of course take one of your not so good mates hunting

Now, I don't have any experience with hunting - but I somehow can't see how it would get your adrenaline levels up. On the other hand FPS get the adrenaline pumping and subject you to quite a high level of stress.

All I'm saying is that neither is going to prepare you for being under fire. However, while hunting may teach you how to use a gun and move stealthily - computer games may teach you how to keep a clear head and a steady hand at higher stress levels. Neither will teach you how to control and work with your fear. As such neither is a good preparation for MORTAL KOMBAT (except of course for computer games if you decide to play that specific game )

While hunting may teach you how to handle your gun I don't think it'll prepare you for using it while in mortal peril. A gun is only worth something if you can point it at what you want to hit - shaking like a leaf makes that process difficult.

[onearmedbandit]

I have no hunting experience, only fired a handful of real guns in my life. Yet I'm a dab hand at being in the middle of a fire fight with the police or some terrorists in a computer game. However, if I was to get caught up in a scenario like the above in real life, I think I'd be keeping my fucking head down and working out how to get the fuck out of there. In PS3 I have infinite lives, and it doesn't hurt when I get shot. In real life I only have one life (yet to be confirmed however) and I know pain hurts. So despite my skills in killing in the fantasy world, I'd be shit in the same environment in real life.

And anyone who says they wouldn't is a liar. We (despite what some people profess) are all scared of that final moment of life.

[ManDownUnder]

Well, I doubt any amount of hunting would make you gain a proper perspective of "Bang Dead is the end - forever"... Unless you of course take one of your not so good mates hunting

ok - that's a big problem right there. It should, and if it doesn't then a person doesn't deserve to be in charge of one.

Now, I don't have any experience with hunting - but I somehow can't see how it would get your adrenaline levels up. On the other hand FPS get the adrenaline pumping and subject you to quite a high level of stress.

Hunting does have periods of excitement, and yes I can see you haven't. Just as my lack of gaming is probably apparent. I played them, they were fun, and I gave them up in favour of something productive and tangible

All I'm saying is that neither is going to prepare you for being under fire. However, while hunting may teach you how to use a gun and move stealthily - computer games may teach you how to keep a clear head and a steady hand at higher stress levels. Neither will teach you how to control and work with your fear.

Agreed - and I would take it further - computer games do teach you (somewhat) how to use a weapon. They simply absolve you of the responsibility.

Real life Bang Dead
Virtual Life Bang, points lost, have another go

Meaning gamers make more capable killers. More or less my original assertion.

[onearmedbandit]

Meaning gamers make more capable killers. More or less my original assertion.

Not this killa. Nor any of my gang-banger homies in da hood.

[Beemer]

The fact that people take a day off work to play a computer game just reinforces to me that the countrys fucked.

Precisely - FFS it's a GAME. I can understand taking a day off work for something worthwhile, but playing shoot 'em up computer games is not it.

[imdying]

I don't think the loss of licence and $1200 in fines have made an appreciable dent in his attitude either.

I'm not sure that banning even this game would make up for your lack of parenting The Dukes of Hazzard has been around since 79... we haven't had 30 years of people trying to jump cars as a result, blaming any form of media for your spawns lack of respect for police is pretty weak.

Hunting prepares one for mortal combat through the simple process of knowing what you and your weapon of choice are capable of when it comes to choose if and how you are going to use it.

Oh my goodness, it's almost sounds like you believe what you're saying Mortal combat for the average New Zealander would likely as not involve no weapons at all, much less hunting rifles/knives/crossbows/whatever... the carrying of such weapons being illegal and all... and if you're carrying those with the intent of using them in mortal combat, well... GTA is the least of your problems.


Scummy, not too many figures easily found via google, but it appears somewhere between 40-80 gun related deaths a year, over half of which are due to pathetic hunters who can't even identify a target... and they were going to make a kill shot how? They're not hunters, they're murders waiting to happen.

[imdying]

Agreed - and I would take it further - computer games do teach you (somewhat) how to use a weapon. They simply absolve you of the responsibility.

Real life Bang Dead
Virtual Life Bang, points lost, have another go

Meaning gamers make more capable killers. More or less my original

Sounds like we should get rid of the guns, not the games.

[Mikkel]

ok - that's a big problem right there. It should, and if it doesn't then a person doesn't deserve to be in charge of one.

I dare say that it's not a given that you'll pick that up just because you go out and shoot a few animals now and again.

Thing about MORE GUNS is that it won't take into account whether people are responsible around them or not!

Hunting does have periods of excitement, and yes I can see you haven't. Just as my lack of gaming is probably apparent. I played them, they were fun, and I gave them up in favour of something productive and tangible

Good on ya! Wish I could just do the same... Unfortunately my brain is now addicted to high endorphine levels and the massive stream of information that games output is the easiest way to get that fix.

Agreed - and I would take it further - computer games do teach you (somewhat) how to use a weapon. They simply absolve you of the responsibility.

Real life Bang Dead
Virtual Life Bang, points lost, have another go

Meaning gamers make more capable killers. More or less my original assertion.

I would say games doesn't teach you anything about weapons at all!

If we speak about a sense of responsibility - that is unfortunately a lacking characteristic in people today. But I'd blame society and upbringing for that - not computer games and/or (lack of) hunting.

I'd like to draw a parallel between the two paragraphs I marked with bold and how traffic enforcement is being handled. No wonder it's a bumpercar ride out there!

[Mikkel]

Sounds like we should get rid of the guns, not the games.

Sense at last!

I like your new avatar btw

[ManDownUnder]

I would say games doesn't teach you anything about weapons at all!

Was it you throwing out the TLAs before? Not bad from someone that's never gone near one. Any idea of their range, effects, ideal targets and weaknesses?

Let's start with an RPG.

[scumdog]

Scummy, not too many figures easily found via google, but it appears somewhere between 40-80 gun related deaths a year, over half of which are due to pathetic hunters who can't even identify a target... and they were going to make a kill shot how? They're not hunters, they're murders waiting to happen.

I feel that figure would be ALL firearms deaths, not just hunting related ones.

I've been to more suicide shootings than all others put together.