Ginchy MUTHAF***ers

[avgas]

Forgot to mention some dick just outta prision got done in with a crossbow down here a couple of days ago, after trying to break into a house with some mates. Put money on it they were going after presents (amongst other things). If it helps ya feel better I hear he died very slowly, as he was shot in the stomach.

either way he's dead and im happy, less crims, less problems

[avgas]

Oh mr and mrs yokai, have a really good xmas.
dont worry bout these fuckers that steal, just be thankful that no one (well no one nice anyway) was hurt and enjoy the time with the family.
if you get any information on the culprits give it to us and we should be able to get some form of justice.
In the mean time if you need any help give us a bell (im just over in MT Eden) and i may be able to help....even if its just to shout u a drink on the next cafe race (which is when???)

[Yokai]

Oh mr and mrs yokai, have a really good xmas.

Cheers, Mate ... We will - down to Whitianga for a while!

In the mean time if you need any help give us a bell (im just over in MT Eden) and i may be able to help....even if its just to shout u a drink on the next cafe race (which is when???)

I'm thinking of finding a decent one on SH22 from the Waikato Pub to somewhere and back, and doing a proper Cafe Race (Jukebox + race) at some point in the New Year...

[jimbo600]

Well personally I'm glad that mother fucker who got speared by the crossbow died. That'll fuckin' learn him and all those of his kind. Don't steal other hard working people's shit. The guy with the crossbow should be acquitted and applauded,

[James Deuce]

Yes it is. 'Reasonable force' being the main doctrine thereof. I think. Case in point being the response when I asked a related question of the local Arms Officer a year or two back.

He stated that if I happened to be cleaning a gun, moving it from one cupboard to another, or otherwise engaging in Access with Reasonable Cause to a firearm, and an armed intruder entered the house (he cited a baseball bat or knife), I should not expect to end up being convicted of a criminal offense if I took advantage of my position and shot the guy.

I'm not going to force the self-defense point until I've gone and perused legislation.govt.nz later tonight, though, so if you happen to have something more concrete to post, feel free to stomp on my idiocy and higgerance. I know we've touched on the subject before here. In fact, I'm sure I've made an almost identical post before, too.

Did we ever reach a conclusion?

The proof rests on proving that you "happened" to be cleaning the weapon, or putting it away, or testing a new bow string. The Dude won't be able to prove that because there are two witnesses on the dead guy's side in this case.

The reason I say self defence isn't acceptable as a defence, is because a friend who is once a criminal lawyer and is now working in the NZ Foreign Sevice in Sth America had a similar case to work on and reasonable force is open to such a wide variation of interpretation that only the desperate should use it.

[2_SL0]

Dude that is a serious bummer , only just read the post. Looks like I owe you the Moro bar. Ill wrap it if you want

[toads]

Hi Yokai, this sort of thing makes me sick to the stomach, I know what it feels like we were burgaled a few christmases ago and we had all 6 kids at home then and had no insurance, they took everything except the big items of furniture, they apparently burnt all the kids things they took in their greedy frenzy, I found a lot of stuff lying around the village here, and some hidden stuff, I eventually got some of it back but we have been insured ever since, quite honestly thieves deserve to die a horrible painful death for taking anything other than food, to keep their starving family alive, anything else is off limits as I see it.

[Yokai]

The proof rests on proving that you "happened" to be cleaning the weapon, or putting it away, or testing a new bow string. The Dude won't be able to prove that because there are two witnesses on the dead guy's side in this case.

Surely the proof lies with the prosecution that he WASN"T in fear for his life. As I understand the criminal process here, burden of proof is on the prosecution in all cases.

I'd be inclined to say that I was in fear of my life. That this was reasonable, that there was no intent to kill the dude but to protect myself. It is then up to the prosecution to prove that I was NOT in fear of my life and that I HAD intent to kill.

Otherwise the default position is that I am guilty of the offence of *insert offence* rather than the default position being that I am innocent and then the prosecution PROVING that I was guilty of the offence.

Don't get me wrong - I don't condone death for anyone (I'm a bleeding heart liberal and feel that the death penalty punishes less the perpetrator than the family of the perp.) BUT if I was in the situation I'd be inclined to argue my case as above.

I think that my closing statements to the court would be along the following lines:

"Did I kill the victim? Yes. Did I do so while in the process of being robbed? Yes. Was I protecting my property? Yes. Because I believe, as I am sure you do, that our lives are our property. I can express to the victim's family how sorry I am that this occurred, and that I hope that others learn from our situation. It is of course reasonable that the family would seek recompense and seek to have the court find me responsible for the victim's death.

I *am* responsible for his death, and for that I am truly sorry. I was in fear of losing my life. I have presented a clear case that I was in fear for my life and that I had no intent to kill the victim. I have shown without doubt that it was reasonable to threaten the victim with the weapon in order to prevent harm to myself. I have also shown that the victim continued to threaten me and showed no signs of being dissuaded from harming me. It was at this point and only this point that I fired upon the victim. My sympathies lie with the family of the victim here. Through no fault of their own they find themselves being punished by the actions of the victim.