Starting issues

[Mikkel]

I tried searching for comparable topics but couldn't find anything that matched.
Lately I've been getting a bit of grief from my 250 when I try to start it from cold.

-The battery is charged.
-The starter motor turns over the engine quite happily.
-I can hear it starting to catch on, but I drain the battery before it will start.


So far I have been using the following approach to get her going:

Choke on, lights off and then running the starter motor until I can hear it starting to slow down (battery running low).
Then I use the slope of our drive way to bump start it. Sometimes this takes two tries and I have to push the bike back up the driveway...

When she has warmed up and the battery has recharged there is no problem at all.


She used to cold-start happily on the first go with full choke. I don't know what the reason is for this recent development. Could it just be the cold of winter and or change in humidity? Anyone got some bright ideas.

[nodrog:Me]

how long is your battery lasting before it dies?

[MSTRS:Me]

I'd be looking at the battery. Especially if it's getting on a bit. Voltage may be down a little, and if so, the amps will be waaaay down. All exaserbated by the colder weather.
Get it tested and replace if necessary. They are about $50.

[vifferman]

What fuel are you running? You may need to go to 91, if you're not already using it. The VFR is harder to start on 98 when the weather is cooler.
Are your airfilter and plugs clean? Valve clearances OK?
It's not rocket science: fuel, air, compression, spark.

[YellowDog]

You could have a bit of dirt in you critical gaps?

Don't discount the battery suggestions.

My Freewind used to do that in the winter only and my solution was to start turning the engine on full choke, reducing the choke slowly until it started (about 3 seconds from full out to almost full in).

It worked for me. Good luck.

[Mikkel]

I haven't timed how long the battery can run the starter motor for - but I think that the battery is fine though. It'll keep the starter motor running for several minutes (of course I don't run it continously - I believe they aren't designed for that).

Fuel varies, but generally I run 95+ octane. Why would 91 be better for this?

Valve clearances and spark plugs were done about 6,000 kms ago. I washed the air filter not that long ago. I don't think there should be any issues there.

Seems to me it has to do with the temperature. When it's (semi-)warm it'll start quick-smart with no worries at all.

[nodrog:Me]

cold weather fucks batteries, it may test fine on a volt meter, buts its the Cold cranking amps you need to start shit.

[vifferman]

Fuel varies, but generally I run 95+ octane. Why would 91 be better for this?

The crap 'they' put in it to increase the octane rating also decreases the ignitability. Not really an issue when it's warm, but can make it noticeably harder to crank up when cold.
In countries with proper seasons (like Mrka), 'they' vary the composition of fuel to allow for this. I doubt if the Big4 (huh... just noticed that 4=$) give a stuff, given that they've piled our petrol full of crap to boost octane, rather than refine it properly.
Yes, I *know* I generally dunno what I'm on about (and nor do most people), but my highly-unscientific, anecdotal evidence supports my hypothesis.

[Mikkel]

cold weather fucks batteries, it may test fine on a volt meter, buts its the Cold cranking amps you need to start shit.

Hmm, I find that the starter motor seems to be turning the engine over as willingly and readily as usual. It just doesn't "catch on" if you know what I mean.

The crap 'they' put in it to increase the octane rating also decreases the ignitability. Not really an issue when it's warm, but can make it noticeably harder to crank up when cold.
In countries with proper seasons (like Mrka), 'they' vary the composition of fuel to allow for this. I doubt if the Big4 (huh... just noticed that 4=$) give a stuff, given that they've piled our petrol full of crap to boost octane, rather than refine it properly.
Yes, I *know* I generally dunno what I'm on about (and nor do most people), but my highly-unscientific, anecdotal evidence supports my hypothesis.

Yes, I suppose that makes sense - I just thought that the octane rating meant that you needed a higher temperature to ignite the mixture (still way less than the arc that a sparkplug draws). But certainly there could be a connection there.
I'll try filling her up with 91 next time I'm at the pump and see if it makes a difference.

[MSTRS:Me]

cold weather fucks batteries, it may test fine on a volt meter, buts its the Cold cranking amps you need to start shit.

Yep. And remember too, that in the start cycle the battery is not only turning over the engine, it is providing the spark. So the drain is very high, and the battery's potential is reduced in cold weather.

[Mikkel]

Yep. And remember too, that in the start cycle the battery is not only turning over the engine, it is providing the spark. So the drain is very high, and the battery's potential is reduced in cold weather.

That's a good point!

But how would this change with the temperature of the engine? (the battery won't heat up...)

[MSTRS:Me]

That's a good point!

But how would this change with the temperature of the engine? (the battery won't heat up...)

A warm engine will turn over more easily than a cold one. Also, the air in and around the bike frame will be warmed by that warm engine, ensuring that the battery is warm too. Stop arguing and postulating...go get your battery checked

[Mikkel]

A warm engine will turn over more easily than a cold one. Also, the air in and around the bike frame will be warmed by that warm engine, ensuring that the battery is warm too. Stop arguing and postulating...go get your battery checked

Sir, yes sir!

Will do that one of these days

And then I'll try and get my arse in gear and get that outline for the tailcone sticker done as well. I'm a bloody slacker...

[MSTRS:Me]

yep

[Mikkel]

yep

Hey, you weren't supposed to agree with that