Bleeding heart liberals

[sels1]

Bringing back the death penalty for recidivist offenders in most catergories of criminal behaviour would help immeasurably

When in the last 2000 years has the death penalty proven a cure for serious crime? Do they still have rapes and murders in the states that have the death penalty? Yes they do! so does the death penalty work? NO IT DOESNT!
Never has - never will.How much bloody proof do you need?

Death penalty is state sanctioned killing - how can you have a peaceful society when the Govt sets this example?

Do you really think your advocating violence helps create a more enlightened society for your children to grow up in?

Most civilised European countries haved moved away from capital punishment. We need to look at countries with low rates of viloent crime and see what they are do right, rather than following the wild west lynch mob attitude - its called evolution

[MSTRS:Me]

Most civilised European countries haved moved away from capital punishment. We need to look at countries with low rates of viloent crime and see what they are do right, rather than following the wild west lynch mob attitude - its called evolution

They have had longer to weed out the Neanderthals, so can be more gentlemanly about such things. We, on the other hand, are out there at the Frontier.....

[spudchucka]

It really perturbs me to read all these knee-jerk reactions masquerading as opinions. Emotive terms like "bleeding heart liberals" are a substitute for rational argument.

WTF are you doing on an internet forum then? You must be constantly perturbed.

A blanket condemnation of the Bill of Rights without attempting to analyze where the blame lies for individual mistakes or injustices is intellectual laziness or political prejudice.

Are we condemning the Act or condemning the injustices done in its name?

And there is a whiff of hypocrisy in such condemnations coming from people who in all likelihood have already used, or will use, every resource of the law, include "technicalities", to get off a traffic charge...

You must be calling pretty much everyone here, (yourself included I'll assume) a hypocrite by that analogy.

Incidentally, I note in the article that a police officer charged with careless driving benefitted from the same or a similar "loophole". Did he and his colleagues vehemently protest against this miscarriage of justice?

Propbably not, whats the point. What was this case by the way, can you post details.

Some time ago Spud agreed with me when I suggested that, as the police were in the best position to know who was guilty and who was not, we dispense with the courts altogether.

Would you mind posting a link to that thread, because I don't recall making a comment like that, or are you just paraphrasing to suit yourself?

We know the judicial system can be improved, and it may well be that some of the provisions of the Bill of Rights are unsatisfactory - but if you think that this and other safeguards of our freedom can be dispensed with entirely

Dispensed with entirely - No. Ammended with some common sense added - Yes.

But hey! Why let rational thought get in the way of a good whinge...

Lets try and apply this pearl of wisdom to ALL threads and we'll all get on fine.

[spudchucka]

Many different sides to this one,while agreeing with the basis of what MikeL says it must be galling for the parents of that girl to see relatively minor cases in court on a regular basis while something so serious that a danger to society has admitted apparently not even getting that far.

And lets all think about the injustice of this situation next time some wanker says "lets defend all our speeding tickets etc to clog up the court system, that'll stop the cops from dishing out so many tickets.

It won't!

All it will do is help facilitate further injustices like this one.

[spudchucka]

Why will killing the perpetrator of a violent crimes stop others committing the same or a similar crime? Do you think a criminal thinks of the consequences of what may heppen to him if he kills/rapes/commits a violent act on another person? I don't believe so.

I have to disagree with ya on this one Lucy.

Now onto the other 1300 posts...

1: Harsh penalties may be a deterant to others with enough of a brain to think about the consequences of their actions before they commit a crime.

2: Extermination of a proven violent offender means that that particular person can't offend against another innocent person.

BTW I'm not an overt supporter of the death penalty but these are obvious benefits to society that would support the death penalty.

[MSTRS:Me]

There was strong support in another thread for individuals using deadly force to defend self & property. There wasn't too much support for criminals' rights. Why all the bleating about State-sanctioned murder

[spudchucka]

There was strong support in another thread for individuals using deadly force to defend self & property. There wasn't too much support for criminals' rights. Why all the bleating about State-sanctioned murder

Because people get off on contradicting each other for the sake of it.

[Ms Piggy]

1: Harsh penalties may be a deterant to others with enough of a brain to think about the consequences of their actions before they commit a crime.

2: Extermination of a proven violent offender means that that particular person can't offend against another innocent person.

BTW I'm not an overt supporter of the death penalty but these are obvious benefits to society that would support the death penalty.

Ok, great arguments but, I do believe that the good ole US of A has an terrible crime rate & the death penalty. So what does that say?

[spudchucka]

Ok, great arguments but, I do believe that the good ole US of A has an terrible crime rate & the death penalty. So what does that say?

I'm not disagreeing with you, the US of A is a special case all on its own however. The litigation that drags out the process contributes to the overall problem. Commit murder and get sentenced to death, you will probably die of natural cause on death row before making it to the chair.

Just watch the Scott Peterson case for an example ( http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/13/peterson.case/ ) he's jsut been sentenced to death for murdering his wife and unborn child. See how long it takes to execute him, I'm picking we'd have to revisit this topic in about 25 years.

If the process was made extremely quick, as in get sentenced and then executed at dawn the next morning, things may be different in the states. Other countries that have various forms of capital punishment don't have the problems that the US does. For instance look at various eastern countries where poverty is rife but violent crimes, (in particular against women) are extremely low.

I'm not actively trying to argue for or against the death penalty, however in some extreme cases I would have no problem with certain offenders being executed.

[MSTRS:Me]

Because people get off on contradicting each other for the sake of it.

No they don't

[Stevo]

It really perturbs me to read all these knee-jerk reactions masquerading as opinions. Emotive terms like "bleeding heart liberals" are a substitute for rational argument. A blanket condemnation of the Bill of Rights without attempting to analyze where the blame lies for individual mistakes or injustices is intellectual laziness or political prejudice.
And there is a whiff of hypocrisy in such condemnations coming from people who in all likelihood have already used, or will use, every resource of the law, include "technicalities", to get off a traffic charge...
Incidentally, I note in the article that a police officer charged with careless driving benefitted from the same or a similar "loophole". Did he and his colleagues vehemently protest against this miscarriage of justice?
Some time ago Spud agreed with me when I suggested that, as the police were in the best position to know who was guilty and who was not, we dispense with the courts altogether. Is that what you lot want?
We know the judicial system can be improved, and it may well be that some of the provisions of the Bill of Rights are unsatisfactory - but if you think that this and other safeguards of our freedom can be dispensed with entirely, just stop and imagine yourself in the dock on a trumped-up charge, or detained indefinitely without trial, or given summary "justice" out the back of the police station...
And by the way, it was "bleeding-heart liberals" of the day who ended slavery, child labour and other injustices...

But hey! Why let rational thought get in the way of a good whinge...

Emotional??????? You ever gotten to know a rape victim by any chance. Regardless of this guy's mental state he's still a Ferkin PAEDOPHILE!!!!! Rapists and paedophiles should be shot so that
a) They cannot reoffend
b) My tax money can go to toward health or education, NOT feeding another criminal in jail

[Stevo]

Ok, great arguments but, I do believe that the good ole US of A has an terrible crime rate & the death penalty. So what does that say?

Umm. Some americans are not real clever eh?

[Blakamin]

I'm not actively trying to argue for or against the death penalty, however in some extreme cases I would have no problem with certain offenders being executed.

And any crime against kids is an extreme case to me.....

kill 'em all

[MikeL]

Emotional??????? You ever gotten to know a rape victim by any chance. Regardless of this guy's mental state he's still a Ferkin PAEDOPHILE!!!!! Rapists and paedophiles should be shot so that
a) They cannot reoffend
b) My tax money can go to toward health or education, NOT feeding another criminal in jail

If you bothered to read my comments carefully you would realize that I am arguing for due process of law and safeguard of certain rights, not against appropriate punishment for convicted criminals. The provisions which in some circumstances allow the guilty to go free are the very ones that protect your freedom from unjust punishment. The system is not perfect, we know that. I happen to believe that it is better for 9 guilty men to go unpunished than for one innocent man to hang. We are not discussing whether rapists and paedophiles should be shot. We are discussing whether, before they are shot, they are given a fair trial and full protection of the law until found guilty.

[toads]

When in the last 2000 years has the death penalty proven a cure for serious crime? Do they still have rapes and murders in the states that have the death penalty? Yes they do! so does the death penalty work? NO IT DOESNT!
Never has - never will.How much bloody proof do you need?

Death penalty is state sanctioned killing - how can you have a peaceful society when the Govt sets this example?

Do you really think your advocating violence helps create a more enlightened society for your children to grow up in?

Most civilised European countries haved moved away from capital punishment. We need to look at countries with low rates of viloent crime and see what they are do right, rather than following the wild west lynch mob attitude - its called evolution

go re read what I wrote, recidivist offenders, means those that re offend, doing the same crime, everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt at least once!, and I can tell you that it is because I want my kids to have a decent life that I think this way, how many kids do you have?, and how many times have you been the victim of serious crime?