Davida helmet opinions?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Make mine the Hailwood replica.

[Big Dave]

As we discussed, I have a Davida open face helmet. I mainly use it for pootling around town on cruisers and scooters.

I reckon it's fabulous. It has lasted exceptionally well and only a daft pom would worry about the heat.

[Big Dave]

Make mine the Hailwood replica.

Matt black with M*A*S*H graphics.

[ital916]

Matt black with M*A*S*H graphics.

Ooh that is a nice one but the cream raf is beautiful in real life. There are so many decals that are great though. Will have to try lots on then haha

[HungusMaximist]

If you like it man just fucken grab it.

I think it looks cool and those googles looks cool also.

I would wear one if I had a scooter or a cafe racer but I certainly wouldn't want to crash face first in one.

But yes, just grab it bro.

[shingo]

D, the one thing i dont get is the fact that on a number of times you have shown people my shoei x-spirit and stated "This is the kind of helmet you need to get, it is the top of the line shoei..etc".

Yet you are considering buying an open face helmet, when you could probably buy an x-spirit for the same amount of money.

The phrase "practice what you preach" comes to mind...

[motorbyclist]

D, the one thing i dont get is the fact that on a number of times you have shown people my shoei x-spirit and stated "This is the kind of helmet you need to get, it is the top of the line shoei..etc".

Yet you are considering buying an open face helmet, when you could probably buy an x-spirit for the same amount of money.

The phrase "practice what you preach" comes to mind...

but he wants a davida helmet

doesn't care that he may lose his face

doesn't care that the risk of brain injury is higher

doesn't care for that money he could buy a featherweight carbonfibre low-noise exemplar of safety technology and ergronomics at it's best.

of course there's the chance that wanting it has blinded him to the risks involved, but it's his money, and he can do his 10 minute commute in full gear, fluoro jacket, back protector and half-helmet if he so wishes - atleast now we can give him shit next time he tells banzai to buy a new helmet or me/stephen for commuting in jeans


(does anyone remember the movie "spaceballs"? i've been trying to figure out what that helmet reminds me of all day)

[PirateJafa]

(does anyone remember the movie "spaceballs"? i've been trying to figure out what that helmet reminds me of all day)

I think that just earned you some green schwartz!

[avgas]

errr no - not even if i enjoyed bumsex and owned a vespa (its their target demographic...)

[ital916]

D, the one thing i dont get is the fact that on a number of times you have shown people my shoei x-spirit and stated "This is the kind of helmet you need to get, it is the top of the line shoei..etc".

Yet you are considering buying an open face helmet, when you could probably buy an x-spirit for the same amount of money.

The phrase "practice what you preach" comes to mind...

Yes, I do say that and for 500 I would in the blink of an eye get an x-spirit. But you've never seen me talk to people about davidas. I'm just a spassionate about them. In the end people choose what they like.

[HungusMaximist]

doesn't care for that money he could buy a featherweight carbonfibre low-noise exemplar of safety technology and ergronomics at it's best.

You westie engineer.....

[Phurrball]

of course there's the chance that wanting it has blinded him to the risks involved , but it's his money, and he can do his 10 minute commute in full gear, fluoro jacket, back protector and half-helmet if he so wishes - atleast now we can give him shit next time he tells banzai to buy a new helmet or me/stephen for commuting in jeans

(snip)

Why I persist in rabbiting on. I accept and acknowledge the latter bit. But what I'm hearing convinces me of the former, which I don't like in an intelligent person that I value as a mate.

"Type of Helmet We classified helmets as either full-face or open-face. Open-face helmets included half helmets covering only the top of the head and “jet pilot”-style helmets covering the top and sides of the head but not the face or chin"

I think that's the wrong part of the article to seize upon - the statistical significance and publication in a peer reviewed journal is enough for me. I'm disappointed you didn't take the bait and read further than the one example I provided and tell me what full face helmets can slightly increase the risk of.

A reason the percentage of injuries is greater in this test is the fact that "shorty's" and "soup bowls" and the such will barely protect your head. It's kind of like saying "we are going to compare injuries statistics between leather and non leather jackets. The non leather jackets can include plastic rubbish bags etc".

That would be extrapolation beyond the empirical data of the study and a specious analogy that presumes to know facts you can't possibly know. Perhaps the learned authors had a valid reason to put all open face helmets in one category? My suspicion is that 'jet style' helmets are probably more widely represented in the study than 'pudding bowls', but this is of course conjecture based on my observations.

The "jet" helmet produced by davida *as silly as it may sound* comes with the ACU gold sticker, meaning it is race approved in the uk *though I fully support the use of full face helmets in racing*. This means it is not some silly half bowl made out of toy store plastic I shall be putting on my head, but low and behold might actually have some inkling of quality and protectiveness.

Manufacturer provided information - things that sound silly usually are. I'd love to see someone turn up to a race in an open face helmet! Don't try and rebut anything with that.

I imagine that the test applied has significant weaknesses (like all helmet test procedures - they are not in vivo - the provided study is). I don't doubt the quality of the helmet, but you have it right with an inkling of protectiveness.

Refer the percentage impacts data I provided in the other SMC thread (Dietmar Otte, The Proceedings of the 1991 International Motorcycle safety Conference) No matter the quality of the helmet, statistically you will suffer an impact to your face in that helmet, with that coverage in 45.3% of crashes, 34.6% of that being jaw injuries. That would be close to 1 in 2. To my mind, that is a substantial and serious risk based on empirical facts, not opinion.

2. What were the conditions of the crashes. It just states autopsies of the deceased due to traffic accidents. Now the traffic in japan is hectic. Was there alcohol involved, excessive speed by the motorcyclist. What were the road conditions, motorcycle conditions etc etc. Stating that thirty six dead peoople between the age of 19 and fifty were studied.

Again, you go outside the study parameters to find an alternative explanation. I would think that evidence of helmet impact and a study of the injuries incurred are sufficiently narrow parameters to draw valid scientific conclusions about helmet protectiveness, the other listed factors are irrelevant to the study.

19 with o/f, seventeen with f/f. We found the open face helmets were worse than full face is a bit far. Study deceased people in excessive speed accidents with f/f and o/f "jet styles". Then bad weather f/f and o/f "jet styles" etc. Then collate results and reach a general conclusion.

Statistical significance is involved here, not a mere general conclusion. In my limited knowledge of stats, I would think the differences would have to be quite marked for significance to be attributed with a small sample size. (Anyone know more?)

The world is full of danger. (Snip = dangerous activities)I try my hardest, in fact I try 200% to not have accidents, to be aware and ride safely.These are dangerous activities but I love all of them. I know they are dangerous my friend, but living life in a safety bubble 100% of the time means I won't be experiencing the life I want to.

The activites you list, bar riding, are in the physical force realms which humans have evolved to cope with, survive and heal. Without external force input, the human body has limited accelerative potential and unless you're very unlucky, you'll be OK (eventually).

Brain injury is forever.

I know riding is dangerous, I also know that in spite of 30000km under my belt, I am still a n00b, so I control what is the greatest risk to the greatest extent possible - I like my maximal safety bubble round my cranium and my face.

I do appreciate your counsel. You are a good friend Ross and I am glad that you believe in what you are saying and are good enough of a friend to be worried with my decisions to try and change them. Let us partake in more discussion soon where I shall further take apart the attached study *whilst you will undoubtedly put your lawyerly skills to use and piece it back together*.

Not my belief. Empirical scientific study from a peer reviewed journal. One of many such examples my crude search uncovered.

I'm not trying to change your decision, I can't do that, you have free will. I'm just making sure that the risk you may run actually is an intelligently calculated one.

The likes of Big Dave (sorry to drag you in BD) have been riding for many years, and are certainly much more skilled in road craft/bike control and more importantly, avoiding accidents than you or I as relative newcomers. An experienced rider choosing to occasionally wear an open face is different to you or I choosing to wear an open face as their chances of successfully avoiding many accidents are much greater.

In my 30000km I've had two not at fault accidents involving other vehicles and no other bins. Those accidents had another vehicle out of my control involved. With odds like that, and the statistical liklihood of a facial impact, I sure as hell choose full face protection even on a 5 minute ride. A more experienced rider may have been able to avoid the accidents I had, so the risk they run is lesser than for you or I if they choose an open face helmet.

Tell me Kb, where's the passion gone. It's funny. The posts when I first started motorcycling were full of naive ideas of this is bad and this is good in the motorcycling world. I've come to realise that behind every decision a motorcyclist makes there is usually an emotional as well as logical idea. Without that emotional feeling, we will.....will.....dear god....all turn into katmans. Yes there is sense and logic, but I believe motorcycling is nothing without passion *disclaimer: that is an opinon not a statement*.

Maybe it's just me. *braces for tellings off and bad rep*

There's no slide towards Katmanism here. Naïveté never got anyone anywhere. Tell me how a full face helmeted person is less passionate than someone sporting an open face lid? Passion is independant of gear. Safe gear is smart. Passion comes down to the riding IMHO.

Ross.

[NordieBoy]

I like the bit in the study that says "avoiding motorcycle accidents is important".

[Phurrball]

^^^ I was amused by that too. Irony perhaps lost in the Engrish translation?

Good to know people are actually reading the PDF. It's only one of many studies out there. I would judge its greatest weakness as small sample size. Google scholar is your friend if you want to find more studies like it.

[HenryDorsetCase]

would it be OK if I bought one, and then just used it as an ornament in my study, or for car racing? (well, I say racing, I mean going down the shops really. Well i say going down the shops, I mean going for my L test)