Last guy in MotoGP V fastest kiwi

**jrandom** · 5th June 2008, 23:03

Originally Posted by gav

As mentioned before Ant West if you take him as the slowest, got on a WSS 600 for the first time and blitzed the field. You think say Sam Smith could do that? Chris Peris who came out here and raced the nationals has struggled to make the top 20 in that same field.

Point.

Maybe the GP guys really do have secret shaolin buddha finger magic.

**CHOPPA** · 5th June 2008, 23:06

On equal machines new to both riders i dont think there would be much in it at all. Stroud has beaten bugden, bugden regularly beat russel holland who is now beating plenty of very recent ex gp riders, there plenty more example of he has beat him who has beat him who has beaten rossi well not that far haha but you get the idea! It would be very close the diff at there level between great and good is often only .1s of a second

**jrandom** · 5th June 2008, 23:24

It's a bit like chess, really.

You can try to analyse whether Grand Master A would beat World Champion B based on the A's performance against C and C's performance against D and D's performance against B... but, in the end, they're all pretty good players, and sometimes it just comes down to a tactical slip on the day.

Motorcycle racing on the same machine, same track, same conditions... I reckon it'd be anybody's game to lose.

**Paulus** · 6th June 2008, 08:41

Have you guys forgotten Crafars win on the 500 back in 98 at Donnington (beating Doohan)? Kiwis are faster than you give them credit for.

**roogazza** · 6th June 2008, 09:29

Originally Posted by Paulus

Have you guys forgotten Crafars win on the 500 back in 98 at Donnington (beating Doohan)? Kiwis are faster than you give them credit for.

Every now and then someone will provide a freaky performance usually due to tyres, but its not often. I spoke of this very race with a guy from Elf fuel (been involved for 25 years with GP's) at a Motogp race in Europe. He said "where did that performance come from" ? Crafer had 10 or 12 seconds on Doohan and it was his view that he just got the tyres right. He shocked a lot of people that day.
You can talk it up as much as you like people, but we just haven't got those freaky guys at the moment.
I'll ask the question again, who's our next Crosby ? Gaz.

**Maido** · 6th June 2008, 10:06

Originally Posted by gav

Dude, that also wasn't his first time on a MotoGP bike either, he's had previous rides on the 990 etc. His so called times were duly debated at the time as well.

As mentioned before Ant West if you take him as the slowest, got on a WSS 600 for the first time and blitzed the field. You think say Sam Smith could do that? Chris Peris who came out here and raced the nationals has struggled to make the top 20 in that same field.

speaking or Peris, did you see where he finished at the miller wsbk ama superbike race?
not bad results at all!

**TonyB** · 6th June 2008, 13:57

Originally Posted by roogazza

Every now and then someone will provide a freaky performance usually due to tyres, but its not often. I spoke of this very race with a guy from Elf fuel (been involved for 25 years with GP's) at a Motogp race in Europe. He said "where that performance come from" ? Crafer had 10 or 12 seconds on Doohan and it was his view that he just got the tyres right. He shocked a lot of people that day.

Or maybe it was the one and only time that Crafar had a competitive bike under him, and the one and only time he got the chance to show what he could do?

Much had been made of Jerry Burgess “20% bike, 80% rider” statement, but even he has recently said something along the lines of the best rider will come last if he has a crap bike, the worst rider will come last if he has the best bike- you need the best of both to win. Look at Rossi- he’s gone from two years of being off the pace to three dominant race wins. Has his riding talent improved, or has the bike/tyre package gotten better?

Then again you have Stoner at the front of the field and everyone else on a Ducati at the back. That’s a pretty strong argument for rider talent over bike....

It’s a tough one eh! The only way you’ll ever answer that one is to have a race series where everyone gets identical machinery.

As for Kiwi’s overseas- look at car racing. We don’t exactly clean up in Oz in the V8 Supercars, yet Scott Dixon and also our A1GP team do VERY well. Then you have the MotoCross boys and girls. Kiwis are freakishly talented at motorsport- market share and advertising budgets mean we don’t get to show it in the top level of road racing any more.

**roogazza** · 6th June 2008, 14:41

As I said TonyB, just no one that flash in Road Racing. But we'll all notice when one arrives, they'll do the biz with no flapping of gums. Gaz.

**jrandom** · 6th June 2008, 14:44

Originally Posted by roogazza

we'll all notice when one arrives, they'll do the biz with no flapping of gums

Roadracing without flapping of gums?

Inconceivable.

**Deano** · 6th June 2008, 14:53

The GP boys are just flesh and blood like the rest of us.

It's the training, experience, dedication and opportunities that make the difference. IMO.

Like someone earlier said - Stoner's parents sold up and moved to Europe to give Casey the exposure to world class riders - who in NZ has done that recently ?

**White trash** · 6th June 2008, 15:06

Originally Posted by jrandom

Inconceivable.

There you go with that word again....... I do not think it means what you think it means.........

**pritch** · 6th June 2008, 15:38

Originally Posted by Deano

Like someone earlier said - Stoner's parents sold up and moved to Europe to give Casey the exposure to world class riders - who in NZ has done that recently ?

Scott Dixon's parents must've come close... But then he's another success story.

What I don't understand is why Australian riders are all over MotoGP and SBK like a rash and we don't seem to be able to get near it just now.

Stoner was part of Puig's stable with Pedrosa and others at one stage so I guess it helps to start early. Corsa and Baylis are getting on a bit and some of the others have been around a while so they didn't all start that young.

We used to be able to produce competitive riders, why not now? Is it the way the classes are organised here, the way MNZ organise the sport?

What do the KB racers think would improve matters? Apart from more money of course...

**Sollyboy** · 6th June 2008, 17:49

Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.

Don't underestimate yourself, it's not that hard

once you get your head around the acceleration and braking ability's of the things it's all down to exploring the mid corner traction, so as long as you can feel things happening it is possible.....
Now don't all get jumpy about me saying it's easy....I'm not saying that....but put Rossi on your 6 fiddy around taupo and see the laptimes.....now that'd be something....

I think your miles off, didnt Stroud have a go at wsb quite a few years back and he was not even close , its sort of a comparison, those guys really are talented its not just the machines

**svr** · 6th June 2008, 18:14

I reckon about 1.5 seconds a lap on a 600 - 1.06s at Manfield - that'd be something to see. I remember seeing Kocinski (I'm old) go 2.5s a lap faster than the best of the rest US riders at Daytona on a 600 (the same times as Scott Russel, Doug Chandler, Jamie Jame et al. on 750s) and the penny dropped about those guys at the very top.

**brads** · 8th June 2008, 10:41

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

On equal machines new to both riders i dont think there would be much in it at all. Stroud has beaten bugden, bugden regularly beat russel holland who is now beating plenty of very recent ex gp riders, there plenty more example of he has beat him who has beat him who has beaten rossi well not that far haha but you get the idea! It would be very close the diff at there level between great and good is often only .1s of a second

Can you please name these very recent ex GP riders please? can only think of one,Tamada,and he's well past his use by date.