Singh family complaining about the police

[Maki]

I'm sure they'd love to be, but as spudchucka pointed out, they're not allowed to be. They have to leave their weapons at the station until something actually happens.

If you want to write to your MP and ask what can be done to change this rule, I'm sure you'll have plenty of cops backing you.

I agree with that. If criminals can carry guns, then you have to let the cops do so as well.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9519160?source=rss

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...,2806798.story

[devnull]

Because the cops have to uphold the law, and the law currently states that you're not allowed to have a loaded firearm handy in a shop to deal with armed robbers.

All weasel words aside, that's precisely what Greg Carvell had and used, so it was difficult for the cops not to charge him with storing a firearm inappropriately.

No charges were laid in relation to the shooting itself. It was obviously justified.

Yes, that's a brain-dead contradiction in the law that should be debated, but you can't blame the cops for enforcing it.

I don't blame the cops for enforcing it - hell, people get arrested for shooting offenders even in places like Texas.

I blame our farcical legal system, that required the guy to spend a fortune on lawyers when he was fully justified in doing what he did.

Unfortunately, crims won't wait patiently while you unlock the gun cabinet, dig around for some ammo, load it, then tell them to leave (nicely, of course. NZ is very PC, after all)

Good on the guy for having the means to defend himself readily available - pity there aren't a few more low-lifes getting the same treatment.

TBH, if you were running a store where there was a high risk of being robbed, possibly with weapons involved, wouldn't you want something under the counter to defend yourself with? I would, regardless of what the law says...

[scumdog]

Maybe, in a big city such as Auckland their should actually be cops sitting there that are READY to respond to an armed offender, especially on a Saturday night.

Maybe the police should be ready to do the job we need them to do....
Or maybe that's just too hard...

Mwahahahahahaha....(draws deep breath)...mwahahahaha...you are SO FUNNY!!!!

Yup, we've got so many Police we can afford to have them sitting around all armed up JUST IN CASE we have an armed incident 'somewhere' - mwahahahahaahahaahah!!!

And yes, we COULD have the Police ready to do the job we 'need of them' (dosn't include you of course Maki) - IF NZ had a population of say 3 million or less.!!

Google up to find out how many Police per 100,000 pop NZ has compared to equal countries...

[tgb_novice]

Ah Finally now this thread is starting to make sense, People are now constructively discussing what could be done to improve the response time of the police in future incidents of this nature , thats exactly what this should be , not a "You / Them are at fault" "No I / We are not at fault" thread.

We are getting somewhere !!!

[Sollyboy]

Bitching about the fact that the cops took 25 min to get them?
Go to india or where ever you from and lets see how quickly the cops get to you and actually give a shit if you get shot or not.

At least in India they know the cops are as useless as ours and they can arm themselves and they do have the right to blow some robbing scum bags head off
with out fear of the cops then charging them for manslaughter , I feel really sorry for these indians , they dont cause much trouble but seem to be over represented as victims of violence .
BTW our police are truely fucken useless , I know they got mp5s ,glocks ,shottys and bullet proof vest , they should have got the fuck in there in a micro second and fucked up some lowlifes

[Patrick]

...the possibility that the next time there is an accident or drunk driver or dangerous driver all over the road and we call *555 , they are making sure that the above said driver will not cause any harm to the officers who may decide to watch this person at a distance and ascertain their safety

Only if he has a gun, and we are unarmed...

But he wasn't, was he?
No hidden lurking gun men. Just a dying man, who did die, and might not have if the decision had been better

Easy to say in hindsight? Of course it is.

Answered yourself here really... And again, the point was, where is the gun man... we know he isn't in the shop, but.....

The poor fella died more than a day later. If over a day didn't make a difference to his internal injuries, how was this 25 to 30 minutes going to made any difference???????????????????????????????????

[QUOTE=RT527;1605187]tell me how you know that they weren't there/QUOTE]

A top post RT527........ See above - it is "Hindsight..." as Ixion correctly pointed out to himself....

"Detective Inspector Jim Gallagher " is the man fronting up. Sounds pretty senior to me.

Don't know who was on the scene running it, but it was not him. He is O/C murder investigation.

There could always be "baddies" out there, so I guess the police should lock their doors, stay at home and shit their pants.

Clearly people need to take care of their own problems, get people who are bleeding to death to the hospital and deal with baddies themselves.

It makes you wonder what cops are good for these days... Oh yes, they are still able to harrass motorists...

You should join and show everyone how to do it right, every time. You can even be Commissioner.

The traffic component of the Police is still only 10% at most. Motorists want to be harrassed, that is why they do stupid shit that is going to get them harassed.... like speed all the time and other dumber shite.

How many armed incidents have you attended mate?

What is your practical experience in dealing with armed offenders?

Or are you just another blah blah know it all armchair critic born of the great New Zealand knocking machine?

Nah... he is the future Commissioner. Show him respect...

Maybe, in a big city such as Auckland their should actually be cops sitting there that are READY to respond to an armed offender, especially on a Saturday night.

Having to go through all that rigmarole just jeapordizes the lives of the public further, after all people caring for bleeding gunshot victims don't have time to put on and adjust the various belts, that "if they don't adjust it it won't stay up". (Maybe all they need is a diet).

Maybe the police should be ready to do the job we need them to do....
Or maybe that's just too hard...

Yes it is - because it is an "Unarmed Police Service..."

If they diet and lay off the donuts, don't ya think the belts would fall down even quicker?

[devnull]

Well said Patrick

The way things stand, especially in the cities, it seems that it's past time for wearing a sidearm as part of the uniform.

The only problem I see with that is with the current low numbers, getting enough range time to remain competent would be a bit of a problem. Not unsolvable, but still a problem, at least in the short term.

I also think that officers should be given individual choice of sidearm. A 9mm is all very nice - light, easy to handle, etc., but doesn't have the same knockdown ability as the larger calibres e.g. .45ACP

[imdying]

If over a day didn't make a difference to his internal injuries, how was this 25 to 30 minutes going to made any difference???????????????????????????????????

Aren't the first sixty minutes critical? Least that's what the doctors/ambulance guys keep telling us.

[devnull]

Aren't the first sixty minutes critical? Least that's what the doctors/ambulance guys keep telling us.

The Golden Hour - if you can get definitive treatment within that time, chances of survival are dramatically improved. It isn't a guarantee of survival - it just means you have a better chance.

Unless you've seen the PM report in this case, there's no use speculating. Some internal organs can't just be sewn back together. you don't know what internal damage was done...

[Edbear]

Well said Patrick

The way things stand, especially in the cities, it seems that it's past time for wearing a sidearm as part of the uniform.

The only problem I see with that is with the current low numbers, getting enough range time to remain competent would be a bit of a problem. Not unsolvable, but still a problem, at least in the short term.

I also think that officers should be given individual choice of sidearm. A 9mm is all very nice - light, easy to handle, etc., but doesn't have the same knockdown ability as the larger calibres e.g. .45ACP

I thought 9mm was .45...?

[devnull]

I thought 9mm was .45...?

nope, they're different...

You're probably thinking of the .40 - that's the same.

A link on the most common sizes...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

[Maki]

Google up to find out how many Police per 100,000 pop NZ has compared to equal countries...

Too few.

Seems like we are on the same page after all. The police need more support to be able to do the job we as tax payers should expect. You clearly agree that there is a problem and something needs to be done. Good on you.

[SixPackBack]

I thought 9mm was .45...?

.45=11.43mm

[SixPackBack]

nope, they're different...

You're probably thinking of the .40 - that's the same.

A link on the most common sizes...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

.40=10.16mm

[Edbear]

nope, they're different...

You're probably thinking of the .40 - that's the same.

A link on the most common sizes...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

Interesting link, thanks for that.

.45=11.43mm

Quite right of course, I should have got the calculator out...