Rear shock for 98 Bandit600

[Robert Taylor]

Yea thats actually the main reason other then (increased adjustability) that people have swaped the oem bandit and katana shocks over as it raises the rear and in response to this lowered or raised the front accordingly which equals out the increased rear height.But for katana and bandit 600 thats what alot of the people seeking rear shock swaps want ...quicker/faster turn in

Thanks, thought as much.

[Robert Taylor]

Having just carried out due diligence in comparing the Ohlins specs for Bandit shocks over the years I have found that the 98 model has a shock length of 296mm and 2000 year onwards 319mm. So the Hirebus shock is in no way suitable for the 98 model. Triboy, it is possible to build the shock at a fixed longer length as required or with an external ride height adjuster

[tri boy]

Awesome Robert.
I did some base sag measurements with Karen on the bike, (and the usual unladen, and off the ground measurements). Laden sag, both front and rear are over 60mm!, and both ends are very mushy.
I'll email weights and riding style/ adj requirements to you so over the next 2-3months I can get it sorted for her. (bike only cost me $2500, so a suspension upgrade is affordable).
More nights in the cold garage for me

[F5 Dave]

Just to dip a meagre oar in the water with regards to shock swaps etc. In my limited experience with a friend’s Bandit (1200 this time) & my RF it would appear that Suzuki had a penchant in this era to fit very soft springs, (as Yamaha seemed to be keen on in the forks of their 80s models). Crude damping aside there is little that can be done to overcome a fundamental problem like this without the correct spring rate - or somewhere even near it!

I’d warrant that the swappa shocks may have been a perceived improvement by raising the rear ride height – either by having a longer length or if lucky a stiffer spring. That aside all bets are off. Anecdotally I would bet that most of these bikes would be improved considerably by just fitting the correct springs in the first place. Yes they will still have the crude std & likely wearing out dampers, but at least they won’t be dragging their sorry asses on the ground & steering like a chopper as they are on the bump stops, especially with a pillion, a very dangerous position if a large enough bump is hit.

Both RF & Bandit improved dramatically with stiffer springs both ends & a refreshening of oil. Damping wasn’t overpowered, however they still remain at the crude end of performance. Compared to my other bikes which either started with decent equipment of have had valving kits they are poor at best & given more money or the will to decide whether to keep my RF I would save & spend the money.

[Robert Taylor]

Just to dip a meagre oar in the water with regards to shock swaps etc. In my limited experience with a friend’s Bandit (1200 this time) & my RF it would appear that Suzuki had a penchant in this era to fit very soft springs, (as Yamaha seemed to be keen on in the forks of their 80s models). Crude damping aside there is little that can be done to overcome a fundamental problem like this without the correct spring rate - or somewhere even near it!

I’d warrant that the swappa shocks may have been a perceived improvement by raising the rear ride height – either by having a longer length or if lucky a stiffer spring. That aside all bets are off. Anecdotally I would bet that most of these bikes would be improved considerably by just fitting the correct springs in the first place. Yes they will still have the crude std & likely wearing out dampers, but at least they won’t be dragging their sorry asses on the ground & steering like a chopper as they are on the bump stops, especially with a pillion, a very dangerous position if a large enough bump is hit.

Both RF & Bandit improved dramatically with stiffer springs both ends & a refreshening of oil. Damping wasn’t overpowered, however they still remain at the crude end of performance. Compared to my other bikes which either started with decent equipment of have had valving kits they are poor at best & given more money or the will to decide whether to keep my RF I would save & spend the money.

Those assumptions are very reasonable, yes. Where it goes pear shaped is if a shock is attempted to be fitted that has a very stiff spring rate and damping attuned to a very lazy motion ratio. I.e to a model that has a very aggressive motion ratio. This sort of nonsense happens very often and youve got to wonder how many people have been maimed or killed though the inability to ask the right questions of the right people.

[erik]

I have re-read my own post about care that should be taken when fitting different shocks into bikes. I thought the advice given was helpful and precise and not to any degree vague and dramatic??????????

First, you emphasized the level of care required as "Extreme". Then at the end you had a blanket statement that the SV1000 shock was "totally" unsuitable in all the points you listed and that "the bike would be unstable and a danger to its rider and other road users."
To me it seems you are over-emphasizing the level of care required and also the danger of trying (assuming it fitted) the SV shock.

Vague is because while you listed several points to be aware of when swapping shocks, you didn't say how the SV1000 shock compared to the bandit shock on any of those points, just that it was "totally unsuitable".

I hope that explains my post.

[Robert Taylor]

First, you emphasized the level of care required as "Extreme". Then at the end you had a blanket statement that the SV1000 shock was "totally" unsuitable in all the points you listed and that "the bike would be unstable and a danger to its rider and other road users."
To me it seems you are over-emphasizing the level of care required and also the danger of trying (assuming it fitted) the SV shock.

Vague is because while you listed several points to be aware of when swapping shocks, you didn't say how the SV1000 shock compared to the bandit shock on any of those points, just that it was "totally unsuitable".

I hope that explains my post.

I apologise for having high standards and being concerned about the safety of riders and other road users in their immediate vicinity. No intentions about being vague but I guess everyone has a different interpretation of the body language of typed text! I assure you of only having the most honourable intentions.

[HTFU]

Why would you buy one straight out of the UK when there is a NZ distributor with backup infrastructure, empolying and looking after our own?

Who ? British spares or Eurobike or is it someone else ? how the hell would the average person know who sells what here ? I tried an internet search for Hagon in New Zealand and all I got was two names that had non existent web links and emails that after 2 weeks had no replies. I am all for buying here but how do I do that ?

And anyway read my post "point of reference for anything here". It was to give Triboy a dollar value for a shock I had been given a price for and since he had stated it was an older bike, price was a major consideration of what the upgrade would be. If there was a NZ distributor with a website that had an email link that worked then would have given him that too.

http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/wdaustralasia.htm

So who is the NZ distributor for hagon - British Spares or Eurobike or both ?

[98tls]

Why would you buy one straight out of the UK when there is a NZ distributor with backup infrastructure, empolying and looking after our own?

Because maybe they have no idea you exist Robert,long before i knew KB existed my computer time was spent on an overseas based website dedicated to pretty much the bike i ride.Since coming across KB i at times when out with mates who ride as most of them do have mentioned you and your business and not one has ever heard of you.Not having a crack at all and fully respect your skills but if people dont know who you are there not likely to send buisness your way i guess.Its pretty obvious your good at what you do to me by following posts on KB but theres a shitload of guys out there who ride bikes passionately but buy suspenders bits overseas because they either think its cheaper or dont know of people such as yourself.

[98tls]

Who ? British spares or Eurobike or is it someone else ? how the hell would the average person know who sells what here ? I tried an internet search for Hagon in New Zealand and all I got was two names that had non existent web links and emails that after 2 weeks had no replies. I am all for buying here but how do I do that ?

And anyway read my post "point of reference for anything here". It was to give Triboy a dollar value for a shock I had been given a price for and since he had stated it was an older bike, price was a major consideration of what the upgrade would be. If there was a NZ distributor with a website that had an email link that worked then would have given him that too.

http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/wdaustralasia.htm

So who is the NZ distributor for hagon - British Spares or Eurobike or both ?

Fwiw yonks ago i bought a rear damper unit off Hagon,i got it direct from England as believe it or not it was slightly cheaper (even with absurd postage costs) to do that than go through Aussie,Peter Leech was the guy i dealt withmailto:sales@hagon-shocks.co.uk seemed a good bloke and even bothered to ring me from England to see what i thought.

[tri boy]

I think it is fair to say that the industry (all after market products) in NZ does have a sporadic "scatter gun" approach to product advertising, and mainly leave it up to the local bike shops to push the brands that their wholesalers stock.
Case in point is Quasi's leathers. Until joining KB, I had never heard of Brett's gear, and pretty much grouped all leather goods into a cloudy picture related to imported Aussie/Asian manufactured goods. (glad KB opened my eyes).

But because our population is minimal, maybe a comprehensive structured accessory industry is difficult to fund/organise. There are literally thousands of bike products out in the international that we kiwi's will never see being passed across the counter.
What is the best way to approach this? Buggered if I know. "Just in Time" delivery management with an efficient NZ website fronted by the main players?

A tricky situation in deed. MHO

[98tls]

I think it is fair to say that the industry (all after market products) in NZ does have a sporadic "scatter gun" approach to product advertising, and mainly leave it up to the local bike shops to push the brands that their wholesalers stock.
Case in point is Quasi's leathers. Until joining KB, I had never heard of Brett's gear, and pretty much grouped all leather goods into a cloudy picture related to imported Aussie/Asian manufactured goods. (glad KB opened my eyes).

But because our population is minimal, maybe a comprehensive structured accessory industry is difficult to fund/organise. There are literally thousands of bike products out in the international that we kiwi's will never see being passed across the counter.
What is the best way to approach this? Buggered if I know. "Just in Time" delivery management with an efficient NZ website fronted by the main players?

A tricky situation in deed. MHO

Fwiw most blokes i know who ride also spend on bike mags,to be honest i dont know if RT advertises in them or not but i buy plenty of them and dont recall seeing an ad,if he does maybe a better one is needed.

[tri boy]

After setting up the damper rod forks for sag etc, (and finding the previous owner had the shock spring on the softest preload position,and only 22psi rear and 20psi front in the hoops, I took it for a squirt up the road, (mainly to try my new Quasimoto boot cut leather pants, awsome bit of kit), I have the following conclusions:
The rear dampening is shite,
The Scrambler fork springs (less than 2k old before changed out for an RT set up) feel pretty bloody good. (they are a straight/linear wind of approx4.4mm wire). With a fork strip n clean, and fresh oil, I think they will be OK, until after I get the Ohlins shock, then, when I save a bit more money RT can do the emulator gig on them.
With cable ties around the tubes, they are using approx 95mm of travel under heavy(but not extreme braking). They may need a little bit machined off the spacer, (5mm) to get the unladen sag spot on, and alleviate any possibilty of "top out" if the wheel enters a pothole.
So thats about it. Robert, I'll be in touch further about the shock spec's for karen, and postpone the fork mods till after winter.
(oh, the little 600 engine is a peach, damn they can rev n go for a mild tuned engine) Kanny better watch her demerit points