Oils ain't oils.

[AllanB]

Sorry all I read was bla bla bla.

I'm still farting around with small preload adjustments etc and now that article tells me I can't even go to my local bike shop and presume the fork oil the parts guy sells me will be the best for my Hornet

When I'm ready to change my fork oil, for the $10 courier cost I think I'll just PM Robert Taylor and ask him to send me down a suitable oil. At least I KNOW he knows his trade.

[CookMySock]

yeah I'm wondering if my front suspension could just do with a lighter oil in it, coz its rough as crap. Spring rate is way to high on the rear, and there isn't much I can do about that - cant change the spring in it, bugger all else fits, and I'm not in the market for a quality replacement. grump.

DB

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry all I read was bla bla bla.

I'm still farting around with small preload adjustments etc and now that article tells me I can't even go to my local bike shop and presume the fork oil the parts guy sells me will be the best for my Hornet

When I'm ready to change my fork oil, for the $10 courier cost I think I'll just PM Robert Taylor and ask him to send me down a suitable oil. At least I KNOW he knows his trade.

Let me make it abundantly clear that there is absolutely no intention to alienate dealers out of the equation, I was in effect pointing out a major failing of retailing in general. Too many people selling product that have woefully inadequate product knowledge. As for me personally, well I belong to an age where there was more specialistaion and many shopkeepers truly knew their product, in many ways the march of ''progress'' has had many detrimental affects.

Back to oils...........certainly the oil should have great temperature stability, lubricity, flow characteristics etc but it is not by any means a magic cure all. Oil viscosity primarily has its greatest affect through smaller orifices i.e bypass bleed before the shim stacks open. When those shim stacks do open oil viscosity has a much diminished affect. Thats for cartridge type forks with speed sensitive damping. If the fundamental character of the damping is not right no amount of messing around with oil viscosity is going to cure the problem!!
With the nasty damper rod forks that we still have in many bikes you tune rebound speed by oil viscosity as the nature of the damping is progressive through a fixed orifice.

[AllanB]

Let me make it abundantly clear that there is absolutely no intention to alienate dealers out of the equation

Hi Robert - I did not take it that way - if fact I agree 100% with you - I expect the parts person or at least someone in the bike shop to have a very good knowledge of what they are selling me. Sadly this is becoming a thing of the past in most retail domains in NZ.

Thus my comment regarding preferring to pay extra for shipping to CHCH from someone who has the relevant knowledge.

Its just a shame I don't have a few K spare for the other goodies you stock

[JD Racing]

Don't get too carried away with the VI rating of oils, it's important but it's not unheard of for companies to add certain polymers that boost the VI rating but then break down very quickly when used, the VI rating is only part of the picture.
I don't believe that by not divulging information companies are protecting their products, I also suspect they are hiding something.
If I go out in my garden shed and blend an oil with a viscosity rating of 450 a specific gravity of 0.8 list a four ball wear and foam test and so on and also state the test standards that it was tested to I'm giving absolutely nothing away apart from test results. What base stock, additives the quantities are all unknown.
If I'm wanting to make an informed choice on oil then I want as much information as possible beforehand as I don't have the luxury of a full chemical lab, I can read up on the test procedures as they are all published and then do some real world testing.

[CookMySock]

it's not unheard of for companies to add certain polymers that boost the VI rating but then break down very quickly when used

That is actually very common with engine oils. There is only one ENGINE oil that I know of that has no VI improvers.

If I go out in my garden shed and blend an oil with a viscosity rating of 450 a specific gravity of 0.8 list a four ball wear and foam test and so on and also state the test standards that it was tested to I'm giving absolutely nothing away apart from test results.

Yeah its a lot easier to build oils to pass tests than it is to do a good job.


DB

[Robert Taylor]

Don't get too carried away with the VI rating of oils, it's important but it's not unheard of for companies to add certain polymers that boost the VI rating but then break down very quickly when used, the VI rating is only part of the picture.
I don't believe that by not divulging information companies are protecting their products, I also suspect they are hiding something.
If I go out in my garden shed and blend an oil with a viscosity rating of 450 a specific gravity of 0.8 list a four ball wear and foam test and so on and also state the test standards that it was tested to I'm giving absolutely nothing away apart from test results. What base stock, additives the quantities are all unknown.
If I'm wanting to make an informed choice on oil then I want as much information as possible beforehand as I don't have the luxury of a full chemical lab, I can read up on the test procedures as they are all published and then do some real world testing.

Fair comments, the real world testing is indeed a good indicator. We have tried a lot of oils over the years and have been very disappointed with many.
But I think it would be a bit of a blanket statement that manufacturers at large are hiding something if all the specs are not forthcoming.

[FilthyLuka]

VI improved

Please keep all posts on topic, open source text editors have nothing to do with oils....



hehehehe