MotoGP 2011 250cc 2stroke replaced by 600cc 4 stroke, its official.

[Ivan]

Go for the Vtwin theory and dont make them off current production based bikes make them genuine GP bikes as that is GP racing not GP2 thatis really production racing with mods.

Who cares if development filters down to road bikes thats what superbike and supersport are for GP racing is for Grand Prix bikes porpose built racers.

I mean alot of people who disagree with me probably havent ridden a GP bike I have raced a 125 GP bike and trust me there is no way to compare it to a production bike they track so well to the circuit high speed cornering Nimble steering peaky engines heaps of fun just I outgrew 125's

[svr]

Will be interesting to see the field sizes in a few years time as the 4-strokes take-over. Cost to do the R&D & build/maintain, will be waaaaay greater than the 2 smokes..........

Some respected commentators said the same thing when the premier class went 4 stroke, and then again to 800s (`Honda will win everything, no-one else will want to play, etc..'). I agreed at the time but apart from the first year it hasn't panned out that way.
Grids are full when there money going in - its not just a costs thing. Going to say 500 twins would create opportunities for the KTMs, Aprilias, Moto Morinis etc. to go racing financed / justified by the production of some cool niche-marketed race-replica road bikes. Going 600 plays into the Japanese hands.
250s are for the purists but have definitely lost wider relevance.

[CHOPPA]

Go for the Vtwin theory and dont make them off current production based bikes make them genuine GP bikes as that is GP racing not GP2 thatis really production racing with mods.

Who cares if development filters down to road bikes thats what superbike and supersport are for GP racing is for Grand Prix bikes porpose built racers.

I mean alot of people who disagree with me probably havent ridden a GP bike I have raced a 125 GP bike and trust me there is no way to compare it to a production bike they track so well to the circuit high speed cornering Nimble steering peaky engines heaps of fun just I outgrew 125's

Where do you think superbikes are getting a lot of there technology? Face it 2 stroke are dying they have to move with the times....

[Ivan]

Where do you think superbikes are getting a lot of there technology? Face it 2 stroke are dying they have to move with the times....

I know and have faced it.

I am saying stuff riding a 600cc CBR600 in a GP frame go the full way and have a GP motor to suit that it aint called moto GP for nothing

[DEATH_INC.]

600s are going to be great! Atleast we can see more development filter down to us, our 600cc bikes will get better and better the 250s dont have any influence on modern bikes.

There is the problem....the 600's are already devoloped from the 600ss bikes, we need some development in the smaller classes. 400cc would be cool, we may then see some modern 400cc race reps for the road instead of another bloody SV650 variation.....and scrap the 125's too and make 'em 250cc fourstrokes....or mix 'em both together....

[gammaguy]

250s are for the purists but have definitely lost wider relevance.
Reply With Quote

Yahuh,so we will sit there watching the races,either live on TV,captivated by the skill and daring of the riders as they dice wheel to wheel for victory,and then one of us will turn to our mate and say,"this race is boring because these bikes are not relevant to my streetbike"

yeah right

[CHOPPA]

I know and have faced it.

I am saying stuff riding a 600cc CBR600 in a GP frame go the full way and have a GP motor to suit that it aint called moto GP for nothing

ah i see yeah they fully need some fresh engine ideas, something to make a decent diff between superbikes.... Its a shame about the 2 strokes i agree! I guess 400cc bikes would be cool from a racing perspective but they would be a bit slow for gp riders and they are to much for a learner on the street and not enough for a decent rider so i doubt we will ever see any more decent 400s

[codgyoleracer]

Some respected commentators said the same thing when the premier class went 4 stroke, and then again to 800s (`Honda will win everything, no-one else will want to play, etc..'). I agreed at the time but apart from the first year it hasn't panned out that way.
Grids are full when there money going in - its not just a costs thing. Going to say 500 twins would create opportunities for the KTMs, Aprilias, Moto Morinis etc. to go racing financed / justified by the production of some cool niche-marketed race-replica road bikes. Going 600 plays into the Japanese hands.
250s are for the purists but have definitely lost wider relevance.

Take a look at the 2 stroke moto gp field size in the 90's - & compare it to today. The fact remains - that simpler technology allows more people to play in the game.
Unfortunatley MOTOGP is not about simple technology !.

If they allow unresticted 4strokes of 400 - 600cc - Then expect people like Honda to spend the 40-50 million US$ to run a two bike team (like they do in MotoGP currently) to do quite well, - & Good on em, they deserve it.

But if the same scenario enters the 250/600 class - then it would be safe to expect 40% + reduction in field size.

So the idea of heavily resticted / controlled 600's (or whatever size) is probably their only realistic option.

Glen

[CHOPPA]

Take a look at the 2 stroke moto gp field size in the 90's - & compare it to today. The fact remains - that simpler technology allows more people to play in the game.
Unfortunatley MOTOGP is not about simple technology !.

If they allow unresticted 4strokes of 400 - 600cc - Then expect people like Honda to spend the 40-50 million US$ to run a two bike team (like they do in MotoGP currently) to do quite well, - & Good on em, they deserve it.

But if the same scenario enters the 250/600 class - then it would be safe to expect 40% + reduction in field size.

So the idea of heavily resticted / controlled 600's (or whatever size) is probably their only realistic option.

Glen

Good point! yeah the gps have been a tad boring of late, only 12 riders i think it was finished last week! I guess its just way to expensive to fill the grids...

[svr]

Yahuh,so we will sit there watching the races,either live on TV,captivated by the skill and daring of the riders as they dice wheel to wheel for victory,and then one of us will turn to our mate and say,"this race is boring because these bikes are not relevant to my streetbike"

yeah right

No, if you read what I said it would have been clear that I meant commercial relevance - I'm with you on enjoying 2-stroke racing.

Bike racing 'purists' dont really pay for the moto GP circus - the factories, advertisers, tv station (=advertisers) etc. do . The extra costs / complexities would be justified by a general growing of the market.
We all know bike racing is a great spectacle - Would be great to see it eventually knock F1 off its perch!

[R6_kid:Me]

600cc, 3cyl, diesel electric - now theres something different!

[denill]

From Soup:

This is a transcript of an impromtu press conference that happened at Mugello between HRC managing director Kosuke Yasutakeand the MotoGP press regarding the move from 250s to 600s as the MotoGP support class.

Q: Explain the position of the MSMA or Honda regarding the replacement for the 250cc class.

Yasutake: The result of the MSMA meetings will not be disclosed, I believe.

Q:Then tell us your point of view.

Y: We believe the next 250cc class is for those young riders who wish to move up to the MotoGP class. They can improve skill there.

Q: What type of machine do you think is the best for that?

Y: We think four-stroke is the future and we are moving toward that. I hope we can compete with machines which will have equal or greater performance compared to current two stroke machines.

Q: What do you think of Dorna's proposal in Le Mans? About 625-650cc?

Y: I think 625-650cc sounds like something in between. I guess they proposed the capacity due to some kind of restriction. We could understand if it were 600cc.

Q: Do you see a conflict between the promoters?

Y: If so, I can understand the background of the proposal. But I doubt any manufacturer can make such an engine (625cc).

Q: May be Kawasaki can.

Q: If it were 600cc the FIM would not allow the class as it would be in conflict with Flammini's contract. The FIM may use its veto; that is why Dorna has raised the capacity.

Y: .....

Q: If Honda is not interested, who would make the engine for the new Championship?

Y: I didn't say we are not interested. We have to have a regulation which will let us provide the hardware continuously.

Q: Do you think a 600cc in-line four would be best?

Y: If we are to provide high performance hardware with reduced cost, then 600cc four-cylinder has a lot of possibilities. Q: Do you mean in-line four or just 600cc?

Y; We are talking about the possibilities. We already have inline-four engine so that would keep costs down.

Q: Why couldn't the MSMA come up with rules which will satisfy all the manufacturers? Is it because the European manufacturers don't like the proposal made by the Japanese manufacturers and Ducati?

Y: There is an idealistic way of thinking and a realistic way of thinking. Those two cannot come close at the moment, I think.

Q: Two days ago during the MSMA meeting, Honda proposed a spec Engine and almost all the manufacturers supported the idea. Is it true?

Y: Honda has not proposed this idea.

Q: Maybe Honda didn't propose it, but there was a vote on a spec-engine rule and a majority supported the proposal. Is it true? We hear that the spec engine would be made by Honda.

Y: I understand the debate was not about whether you support the idea of a spec engine or not. However, Honda does not object to the idea of Mono Engine, I hear.

Q: Are you interested in supplying engines if the class uses a spec engine?

Y: I only heard about this idea today so we have to discuss it. But as for a spec engine, Honda wishes as many manufacturers as possible to take part in the Championship.

Q: About a year ago, Mr. Horiike, speaking personally, said he is interested in 500cc twins. What is Mr. Yasutake's opinion?

Y: If we talk of the ideal world, you can produce that kind of engine with a lot of money. But I don't think there is a manufacturer with the capacity to produce that kind of engine continuously.

Q: We hear KTM will propose such an engine.

Y: I hear the number is very limited.

Q: If we improve Fuel Injection and such, two-stroke engines might produce lower emissions. What do you think about that?

Y; There will be many possibilities and approaches. However, the MSMA decided to go for four-strokes.

Q: If you think of the cost, it might be four-stroke 600cc. But the weight of 600cc motorcycle is around 170kg at the moment and the riders from 125cc will have difficulties riding the machine.

Y: If we were to consider such a machine, we can produce a motorcycle which weighs less than 140kg.

Q: How about 125cc

Y: 125cc will become four-stroke also. However, at the moment our priority is to decide the regulations for the 250cc replacement class.

Q: What do you think of the idea of a spec ECU?

Y: Engines differ by manufacturer so it is necessary to use their original ECU in order to get the best performance. But maybe we can have a spec rev limiter.

Q: When do you think we will get a decision on this issue?

Y: At the moment we are ready to propose our idea, which we have discussed within the MSMA, to the GP Commission. We need a little more time.

Q: At the moment, we have many good riders in 250cc class. Why do you have to change the situation?

Y: We, the manufacturers, have agreed to change to four-stroke and now we are discussing how to make the move.

Q: Why is DORNA proposing the regulations? Isn't it the responsibility of the MSMA to make a proposal?

Y: DORNA is not proposing everything. We, the MSMA, are proposing what has been discussed within the MSMA. It is not that we are following the idea of DORNA.

Q: If it is four-stroke, 600cc, four-cylinder, the regulation will cause a conflict between Flammini and Dorna within the FIM.

Y: I sincerely hope that FIM, Dorna and FG Sport would have a good discussion and solve the problems.

[Crasherfromwayback]

600s are going to be great! Atleast we can see more development filter down to us, our 600cc bikes will get better and better the 250s dont have any influence on modern bikes. I guess we might see some funky engine configurations to set them apart from the supersports, its a great thing for the sport

That's what 600 supersport racing is for. They don't belong in GP's.

[steveyb]

The quickest way for the maufacturers still in 250 (and 125), ie KTM, Aprilia, Gilera, Derbi to increase the size of the grids is to re-price their bikes.
At realistic prices the grid sizes would go up by 25-50% and sales to the rest of the racing world would triple almost overnight.
E35,000 for a KTM RC125 or Aprilia RSW125 vs equv of $13,000USD for a Honda. No wonder there are not many, if any, out there.

[AllanB]

Hmm

I love the 400 cc idea proposed by several KB members.

I was pissed off with the reduction to 800cc - to me the top Moto should be BIG - even 1200-1400 cc - for F's sake it is meant to be the top racing class. just imagine 1400cc V8 engines screaming at 20,000rpm