So who's the terrorist again?

[mstriumph]

.........................The israellis are just another bunch of religious zealots as bad as the friggin rag-heads they were stupid enough to move in next door too .............

as an aside, i understand there is a distinct difference between strict jews [who form a very small part of the population] and israelies [which term includes everyone there, including israeli arabs] ...... also, jews and arabs had lived together in that area for many hundreds of years, so it's not really a case of 'moving in next door to ...... ?

on the other hand, gotta agree with you that the region is definately fucked ...

[alanzs]

what's the answer?

the answer is simple and very hard all at the same time:

act morally and apply those morals equally whether toward yanks, brits, iraqis, koreans, africans or any country or people. Too many here, usually the conservatives, apply their morals discriminatorially; they allow Yanks to slaughter without question but complain when Palestinians, whose very lands were stolen by the UN to give to the Zionists, attack their oppressors (for example).

yes, it may cost a few dollars to act morally. The lead capitalists don't believe in anything really except greed. Authoritarians only worship power. They will spend money to cajole and brutalise if they think they can profit in the long term.
If you support them in any way that corrupts your moral base, you have more than given in; you've handed them victory on a platter, you've accepted their bullshit.
Similarly, if you apply morality based on nationality or ethnicity on this forum, some like me will challenge it. You too should be challenging it when you see it.

"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing" Ed Burke

This isn't an answer to the rant you brought up. What would you do? Your philosophical stance doesn't provide actions, just a base premise from which to self righteously pontificate and attacks others who are forced to act because they don't have the enviable luxury of being a small, isolated country of no strategic value to the rest of the world.

Some people have to really solve extremely complex issues that require action in an amazingly complex world, not just rant in chat rooms on motorcycle boards.
Again, what would you do? I think everyone would welcome your thoughts on actions to successfully solve the issue you brought up.

[alanzs]

as an aside, i understand there is a distinct difference between strict jews [who form a very small part of the population] and israelies [which term includes everyone there, including israeli arabs] ...... also, jews and arabs had lived together in that area for many hundreds of years, so it's not really a case of 'moving in next door to ...... ?

on the other hand, gotta agree with you that the region is definately fucked ...

You are correct. Most Israelis want peace and abhor what the small, fundamentalist right wing have done to the peace and stability of the region.

[Robert Taylor]

Wow. It's such a shame you weren't around in 1945-48...

Well it might have beaten some sense into him....Appeasement doesnt work so well with dictators, just ask Neville Chamberlain from his grave.

[Bikernereid]

if it wasn't for the US screwing the UK out of its gold reserves a couple of rather nice islands and the fookin Jews getting handed Palestine then NZ would be part of Japan!! What crap history have you been taught at school?

So should we all just pretend that the world is a peaceful place, inhabited by friendly people who want nothing more than to live in peace with everyone? Pass the bowl there bro, you be smoking some mean shit if you believe that.

While it may not be what people want to remember, if it wasn't for the US, New Zealand would be a part of Japan.

Ah, the naivety, idealism and ignorance of youth. I do remember it well.

[Bikernereid]

The Sykes-Picot Agreement saw the start of the Arabs (including the Palestinians) getting had for assistaing the Brits in the war. What happened was that the US Jewsih lobby pressurised the Brits into giving the Jews a honmeland and guess what out of the three that were suggested it was Palestine that was chosen. So those 'rag-heads' that died so that Germans and co did not win the war got screwed over for our 'freedom'.

As for moving next door, if you new anything about history at all (maybe not as you have probably spent all your life in your little southern cocoon) they did not. The Palestinians had let a great deal of Jews move into Paletine after being persecuted in Spain. Jews, Muslims and Christians lived in harmony for years until the Palestinians lost thier home!

Strange that when it is the Polish and other nationalities home being threatened all hell breaks lose but when a few 'rag-heads' lose thier home and try to defend it (with some help from thier neighbours) people get offended. Hypocricy ring any bells!!!

Trisiting the Gaza Strip you might learn something!

The israellis are just another bunch of religious zealots as bad as the friggin rag-heads they were stupid enough to move in next door too (not by invitation either - the british said "here you go, have your religious homeland surrounded by people who consider you all as subhuman and demonic. Enjoy, tally ho!" ... and the region has been twice as fucked ever since.

[davereid]

A nice little story.
The Jews bought some "pre-loved" B-17's that would become part of the new Israeli Air Force. On the way home to Israel, the pilots decided that they might as well make the most of the flight, so bombed Egypt.
Have bomber, will travel!

Neglects the important fact that this bombing occured a full month AFTER Egypt declared war on Israel.

[alanzs]

if it wasn't for the US screwing the UK out of its gold reserves a couple of rather nice islands and the fookin Jews getting handed Palestine then NZ would be part of Japan!! What crap history have you been taught at school?

Please enlighten me, as I never said that the Jews getting handed Palestine and then NZ would be part of Japan. Never said that at all.

What I did make reference to was that during the war in the pacific, in WW2, the US was engaging Japan throughout the Pacific. IF the US was to have lost in the Pacific, Japan would have taken NZ, therefore, NZ would be part of Japan. Most historical scholars agree on this.

I am not an expert though, but I do know a little bit about the challenges of the region and the implication actions there have on the wider global community.

As I asked the original poster, what would you do? Please, state the action that you would do to resolve this conflict.

[Swoop]

Neglects the important fact that this bombing occured a full month AFTER Egypt declared war on Israel.

Also the difficulties involved in acquiring the aircraft.

[Street Gerbil]

a understand there is a distinct difference between strict jews [who form a very small part of the population] and israelies [which term includes everyone there, including israeli arabs]

Not entirely accurate. According to the 2008 census conducted by Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics,
Israelis i.e. citizens of the state of Israel have the following ethnic makeup:

Ethnic group	Population	% of total (7282000)
Jewish	5499000	75.5%
Arab	1461000	20%
Other	309900	4.4%

[awayatc]

The Sykes-Picot Agreement saw the start of the Arabs (including the Palestinians) getting had for assistaing the Brits in the war. What happened was that the US Jewsih lobby pressurised the Brits into giving the Jews a honmeland and guess what out of the three that were suggested it was Palestine that was chosen. So those 'rag-heads' that died so that Germans and co did not win the war got screwed over for our 'freedom'.

As for moving next door, if you new anything about history at all (maybe not as you have probably spent all your life in your little southern cocoon) they did not. The Palestinians had let a great deal of Jews move into Paletine after being persecuted in Spain. Jews, Muslims and Christians lived in harmony for years until the Palestinians lost thier home!

Strange that when it is the Polish and other nationalities home being threatened all hell breaks lose but when a few 'rag-heads' lose thier home and try to defend it (with some help from thier neighbours) people get offended. Hypocricy ring any bells!!!

Trisiting the Gaza Strip you might learn something!

When te UN peacekeepers went to Lebanon in the late seventies, most soldiers sympathised with Israel......
When the same soldiers came back 6 months later however their sympathy had shifted towards the Palestinians....

Palestinians/Arabs and Jews lived together peacefully for many years in what is now Israel.
Sad truth is that very same land is also the homeland for Palestinians.....

Unfortunately There is more money in conflict then in Peace....
Israel is a very large international arms dealer, and can sell American "combat proven" military hardware to anybody the USA officially can't trade with.


Palestinians are very nice people, and I am sure most Jews are as well, as is any other race/ creed/ breed and Nationality (apart from Aussies.... )

People are not the problem....politics are

[alanzs]

Palestinians are nice people, so are Jews, Arabs etc......etc

People are not the problem....politics are

Very well put. I think everyone wants the same thing regardless of "what" or "who" they are; to live in peace, safety and security.

[alanzs]

Not entirely accurate. According to the 2008 census conducted by Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics,
Israelis i.e. citizens of the state of Israel have the following ethnic makeup:

Ethnic group	Population	% of total (7282000)
Jewish	5499000	75.5%
Arab	1461000	20%
Other	309900	4.4%

I think though that "strict" Jews (Orthodox) are not the majority of Jewish people there. The exact figure, I don't know.

[Bikernereid]

I wish that this was true but some peope don't. I spoke to some Isralis when Netanyahu first got elected and they were so pleased and that they didn't want peace with the Palestinians. When I asked in amazement why, they stated that the blood bath that would ensue between the Ultra orthodox Jews and secular jews after peace with the Palestinians would be far worse than anything that had been seen before. This was because the Ultra's saw secular Jews as scum the same as the Palestinians.

And here was me always thinkiing that peace was good.

Very well put. I think everyone wants the same thing regardless of "what" or "who" they are; to live in peace, safety and security.

[puppykicker]

Unfortunately it is like killing a cockroach, unless you get every last piece, the problem will grow again.

right, kill em all and problem solved. not like kids whos parents were killed as martyrs might go on to follow in their footsteps, but thats fine, we can kill the kids. so all we have to do is kill absolutely anyone that may one day decide they want to blow something up. ethenic cleansing is a small price to pay for safety.

does anyone seriously think that you can fight (let alone kill) an idea?