So who's the terrorist again?

[peasea]

If you want to talk tyranny and corruption what about Howard Broad?

[MisterD]

Yeah right all capitalists are evil..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Salt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_...lanthropist%29

[Robert Taylor]

I suppose I'd be silly to let myself get annoyed at this.

G'wan, tell us about the 'Zionists' who could have saved 'hundreds of thousands' of Jews from the Holocaust, but didn't.

Tell us all about it, Mr Idle Sir.

Im of the same opinion, no need to get annoyed at the ( obnoxious ) rantings. My local MP is Harry Duynhoven. I told him I have never voted for his party and never will do so but was still able to have a very long and cordial conversation with him. Its possible to disagree and still be nice....

[mstriumph]

.............Mussolini and Hitler were both massively supported by capitalists whom they in turn supported. Not only that, the Catholic mongrel Church even signed a concordat supporting Hitlers murders.

yep - right on all counts

.............During WW2 the zionists were given the opportunity to save hundreds of thousands of Jews from the concentration camps. ...........

erm, British Government i think you'll find ..... but a thoroughly good rant otherwise

[Street Gerbil]

mmmmmm - ok, given that a jew is anyone born of a jewish mother or acceptably converted, that still leaves us with several divisions and degrees of observance

the post i was responding to concerned the lumping of everyone into the same barrel [if you read his post you'll understand where i was coming from]
...... when i said 'strict jews' in my post, i was talking about the super-frum, the kosher of the kosherest ..... not your average jew-in-the-street, secular jews, reform jews, traditional jews or whatever - just the ones that get REALLY cross and barricade streets before the Sabbath and suchlike ...... so, if you can re-make your statistics on that basis, i'd like to see it.......

Quoting from Wikipedia:

Official figures do not exist as to the number of atheists or otherwise non-affiliated individuals, who may comprise up to a quarter of the population referred to as Jewish. According to a 2004 Israel Central Bureau of Statistics Study on Israelis aged over 8% of Israeli Jews define themselves as haredim (or Ultra-Orthodox); an additional 9% are "religious" (predominantly orthodox, also known in Israel as: Zionist-religious, national-religious and kippot srugot); 12% consider themselves "religious-traditionalists" (mostly adhering to Jewish Halakha); 27% are "non-religious traditionalists" (only partly respecting the Jewish Halakha), and 43% are "secular". Among the seculars, 53% say they believe in God. Due to the higher natality rate of religious and traditionalists over seculars, the share of religious and traditionalists among the overall population is even higher.

but, as you aren't allowed to count them how DO they perform the census?..

Read about it here (page 40). Unfortunately, text from Google books cannot be copied and pasted.

[svr]

Extremists anywhere are a minority that cause the majority of all conflicts.
Not a single extremist ever has been or will be right....

Er, if history shows us anything it is that the majority is always WRONG, and those marginals speaking the truth have consistently been ridiculed (normally worse) by the tyranic majority.

As long as we have extreme inequality and an uncritical majority we will have violent regimes ruling the world and running our lives - no matter what you want to call our particular form of socio-political organization.
And those of you who think that there is any substantial difference between `national' and `labour', or any small `democratically' elected government have no grasp of global capitalism - corporations now rule our lives - we have no actual say.
We certainly have a right to be angry - but not at Idyll - he's not the reason 30,000 kids starve to death every day while Americans eat themselves to death.

[Bikernereid]

If you had followed the thread you would have seen that I was responding to someone elses post and used the terminology that they did. I do not think of arabs as 'ragheads' and I was purely responding in a language that person would understand e.g., 'ragheads' and not ragheads.

Try reading the whole thread in future before jumping on someone about thier terminology and look at the way something is written If you look at what I have written elsewhere on this thread you may come to understand why I would not use the term raghead in my everyday writing or spoken language


The arabs did not threaten to push the jews or israleis into the sea, this is what is known as propoganda! You might want to look at the UN meeting at which Yaser Afarat spoke and see what he had to say or try reading some 'non-propoganda' literature about the region, the politics there and the culture.


And as for name calling you might want to take on all those people who use anti-semetic incorrectly!

'rag-heads' is an offensive term to many, me included
but, that aside, i scarcely think that an all-round arab attack swearing to push the new state into the sea can be dismissed as people 'trying to defend their home with some help from their neighbours' ........

there's a lot wrong on both sides..... name-calling and emotive language don't help anything

[Street Gerbil]

The arabs did not threaten to push the jews or israleis into the sea, this is what is known as propoganda!

So all those wars since 1948 when arabs tried to make good of their non-promise never happened and they are propaganda too? Pray tell, the inquiring minds want to know!

[idleidolidyll]

yep - right on all counts

erm, British Government i think you'll find ..... but a thoroughly good rant otherwise

Yep, Brit and Spanish governments too I believe.
The offer was made by the Nazis. Zionist leaders refused. They said that they would not pay any 'ransom' (actually a rather small figure).
Here's what a leading zionist of the time said:

"One Cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland"
....Izaak Greenbaum



There are many similar quotes from heartless zionists of the time. The upshot is that zionism was more important to them than the lives of millions of Jews. Important to note at this point that zionists are not necessarily Jews, nor are Jews necessarily zionists. In fact it is said that there are more Christian zionists in the US alone than there are Jews in the whole world. Additionally, it is not the 'Jews' who are to blame for the violence of Israel, it is the zionists.


Decades of zionist propaganda has convinced people too lazy too research for themselves that zionism IS Judaism or that Israel represents the views of all Jews.
In fact many Jews, notably the more religious Jews rather than the Jews by name alone, totally reject Israel and zionism.


Now, when I say Jews by name alone, I equate that to my own supposed religion. I was christened into catholicism as a baby. I had no choice in the matter and I reject the religion completely. The Catholic church however, still counts me as a catholic even though I'm an atheist. The same goes for non religious 'Jews'.


One of the most racist propaganda campaigns of the zionists is to convince the world that 'Jew' is a unique race of people when in fact they were just another part of the gene pool of the middle east and later from eastern europe (yes, many Jews don't trace much or any of their blood to the ME). The conversion of the Khazars to Judaism in the middle ages for instance is a pointer to a large core of modern Jews who do not trace their history back to Palestine but to Asia. Of course there has been subsequant intermarriage but the fact remains; these people were not born ethnic Jews in the ME, they converted to Judaism at the behest of their ruler. http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-quotes.html



The claim that Judaism is 5000 years old is also a misnomer. The ROOTS of Judaism are certainly that old and since Christianity and Islam are from the same base religions, we can say the same of them. However, the defining religious book of modern Jews is from Mesopatamia AFTER the Hebrews left Israel. The religion prior to the Torah was Hebrewism and after it Judaism; they are not the same.



How do zionists counter this kind of argument? Well they don't address the issues at all. Instead they attack any who dare speak this was as antisemites even tghough it is not a criticicm of Jews or Judaism but of zionism and its political agenda and propaganda.



Do yourselves a favour and read what Jews opposed to Israeli violence have to say about zionism:



Here's a start, there are many more:

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/holocaust-zionism.htm
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/an...aust/index.cfm


I say again, if you support the state of Israel, why would you not support the eviction of all pakeha from NZ, the eviction of all non native people from the USA etc?
The issue is not that simple of course, the Native Americans and Maori were unarguably the original people in their lands; people of Jewish religion may have developd from the Hebrews of the ME but so did Muslims, Christians and many other peoples who lived in the ME and specifically Israel at the same time.
Unlike NZ and the US, there was no unique blood link that could have legitimised the zionist agenda in Palestine.

[idleidolidyll]

So all those wars since 1948 when arabs tried to make good of their non-promise never happened and they are propaganda too? Pray tell, the inquiring minds want to know!

sure they happened but the western media controlled by capitalists with major interests in the ME have convinced little minds that all were the fault of the Arabs and other peoples of the region.

In fact research has shown that for the most part that is propaganda. Reports of attacks against Israel are repeated many many times in the western media while reports of attacks by Israel against their neighbors are largely buried, rarely repeated and even when shown, incorerectly blamed on 'terrorists'.

without yank support, israel would have fallen in no time at all. Why is that Yank support there at all? Yank leaders do nothing for humanitarian reasons, it's all for economic or political gain.

If Yanks has militarised NZ to the tune of close to $100 billion, we too would be a nuclear state with more power than any nation in our region.

Of course the Yanks add together all money given to Israel (including never pay back loans) and call it 'aid'.

Aid for a highly developed nation like Israel as they withold aid for many other more needy nations? What a joke, it's quasi colonialism no less.

[Flatcap]

If Yanks has militarised NZ to the tune of close to $100 billion, we too would be a nuclear state with more power than any nation in our region.

Huh? Does Fiji have more power in our region than NZ then?

[idleidolidyll]

BTW; screeching anti semite only makes you ridiculous.

a semite is any one of the many cultural groups from the ME whose language comes from the Hebrew. Jews are just one of those religious/cultural groups.

This too is zionist propaganda. It attempts once more to intrinsically link 'Jews' with zionist authority so that any condemnation of Israel or zionism can conveniently be attacked with the halfwitted word 'antisemite'. Zionists have done this for a century and more strongly following WW2. They prey on the deserved sympathy many feel toward the Jews slaughtered in WW2 but this is just political propaganda. Zionists do not speak for Jews, they merely speak for zionists.
BTW: Muslim Palestinians are also semites, so are Christians from Lebanon, so are many others in the area.

please, call me antisemite; you label yourself more than you label me

[idleidolidyll]

Huh? Does Fiji have more power in our region than NZ then?

why don't you answer your own ridiculous fallacy

better still, here's a list of fallacies of which yours is one. See if you can identify exactly what fallacy it is:

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/taxonomy.html

[MisterD]

Methinks we need a "Commie Ravings" thread in PD...

[Robert Taylor]

Methinks we need a "Commie Ravings" thread in PD...

How about just sterilising them so they cant breed any more? Now that would be a useful by-product of totalitarianism.