Should we end the drug war in NZ?

[scumdog]

Despite my slightly right wing leanings, I think Cannabis should be legalised and regulated like alcohol. The policing dollars would be better spent on the likes of P, and the income stream needs to be taken away from gangs

"Regulated like alcohol"

Oh how my sides hurt when I read that...regulated like alcohol - oh that's working SO well eh!!

THE worst drug we have.....

I wonder if the 'other' drugs were legalised and 'regulated' if we would have the same chaos??.

[dhunt]

After we came to our senses and repealed alcohol prohibition, homicides dropped by 60% and continued to decline until World War II. Today's murder rates would likely again plummet if we ended drug prohibition.

After we came to our "sensors" or lack thereof a few years ago and lowered the drinking age to 18 what have been the effect. More drunken and disorderly behaviour of younger and younger kids. Surely legalising drugs would have the same sort of effect?

[scumdog]

DRUGS ARE GOOD

For what? - making a profit???

[dhunt]

Interestingly a recent survey found that the country in the world where the least people have tried cannabis is Holland. One of the few countries where it's legal - funny that eh.

Maybe they are just more intelligent over there and understand the effects/consequences of drugs???

[alanzs]

Maybe they are just more intelligent over there and understand the effects/consequences of drugs???

Through accurate information, education and treatment not self serving political propaganda pushed by the media. And, take away the thrill factor of it being illegal. It's not so rebellious to drink when you are allowed to legally or smoke pot for that matter.

In California, and 16 other states in the US, you can ask your doctor to recommend cannabis to treat a zillion symptoms; stress, depression, tension headaches, cancer, whatever. There are hundreds of shops that will sell cannabis to you if you have the recommendation. You can legally grow up to 12 plants and have up to a pound of pot, if you are a medicinal user. Police tend to focus on more important things, like the 25 (mostly drug related) murders that happen on average every weekend in LA. The sky hasn't fallen, people still go to work, it's just not a big deal as the scare mongers would have everyone believe.

Thanks for the great responses by the way.

[mowgli]

Maybe they are just more intelligent over there and understand the effects/consequences of drugs???

Not surprising with all the dumb tourists coming through to provide examples.

[madandy]

I agree that drug abuse has had significant costs to society. But, if a shot of heroin or P was a dollar, people sick enough to use those chemicals wouldn't have to rip off our houses or kill our elderly to get the money to use it. I think that would make more sense. I realize it is a stretch for many people, myself included, to put aside the moral certainty that we should tell others what to do with their bodies, but drug addiction is an illness. Making it criminal just seems to have made its effects on society worse, as the article in the LA Times stated.
Even the DEA, the largest drug enforcement agency on the planet, in their own studies have debunked the gateway theory of drug use, i.e., that smoking pot leads to other drug use. Even if it was true, that would make the argument of legalization even more compelling. Do we want our 18+ year old youth going to the gang tinny house to get their pot, where they are exposed to many nasty things, or to the local "coffee shop" like in Holland?

By the way, Charlton Heston died this year as I recall....

Are you a drug user?

You go make P or Heroin $1 a shot and there'll be a LOT MORE addicts. It's too dear and too hard to get for most and beleive me, most drug users will try anything once for a laugh if its cheap enough and avaliable.

I totally agree that decriminalising some drugs would work if appropriate regulation were put in place. People are always going to get, and try drugs legal or not so the minor 'offenders' should not be treated like criminals.

The 'gateway theroy' is correct. A % of people do try hard drugs due to the circles they become involved with in their quest for a solid supply of pot.

Decriminalising pot and making it an acceptable recreational drug for private use is in my opinion a posisive step but needs to be handled very carefully.

I would much rather my son one day visit a 'coffee shop' than a gang run tinny house.

In my short time I have known quite a few bad people and drug users. Seen illegal guns and 'deals' go down. I have never known a wife beating, child abusing person with an alcohol problem so as I see it from my experience there may be a greater drug problem in NZ than Alcohol problem but the Alocolics are doing more physical harm to the ones they love.

[MisterD]

"Regulated like alcohol"

Well at least tax-take covers some of the damage that it does...but consider the Euro 2000 Football championships.

England played Portugal in Eindhoven, (Netherlands, pot widely available) and lost...no violence. England played Germany in Charleroi (Belgium, strong beer widely available) and won...English and German fans fought running battles, riot squads, water cannon, etc etc.

[mowgli]

A high percentage of NZer's regularly break the speed limit. Would increasing the speed limit reduce the number of speeders? I doubt it. Motorists would still push the bounds. So what about having no speed limits at all? Would that make roads safer? Definitely not, because too many people (esp young) lack the experience and/or maturity to operate safely in an unregulated environment.

I reckon it's the same with drugs. What we're eally trying to do here is protect our kids from something which they lack the experience and/or maturity to deal with themselves. Once they get to our age then it's up to them. I don't care if my neighbour is a pothead so long as it doesn't have a detrimental effect on others. But while our kids are young and vulnerable they deserve protecting.

So how do you protect the young while letting the adults exercvise their own discretion? I'm sad to say but it sounds like regulation might just do it. The big question remains: what regulation? Alcohol regulations are a very poor example. Tobacco, not much better. I know there's an answer out there somewhere, but I can't see it yet.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Well at least tax-take covers some of the damage that it does...but consider the Euro 2000 Football championships.

England played Portugal in Eindhoven, (Netherlands, pot widely available) and lost...no violence. England played Germany in Charleroi (Belgium, strong beer widely available) and won...English and German fans fought running battles, riot squads, water cannon, etc etc.

doesnt that say more about the english and belgian fans than it does about the availability of like, you know, drugs and stuff.?

[alanzs]

Are you a drug user?

You go make P or Heroin $1 a shot and there'll be a LOT MORE addicts. It's too dear and too hard to get for most and beleive me, most drug users will try anything once for a laugh if its cheap enough and avaliable.

I totally agree that decriminalising some drugs would work if appropriate regulation were put in place. People are always going to get, and try drugs legal or not so the minor 'offenders' should not be treated like criminals.

The 'gateway theroy' is correct. A % of people do try hard drugs due to the circles they become involved with in their quest for a solid supply of pot.

Decriminalising pot and making it an acceptable recreational drug for private use is in my opinion a posisive step but needs to be handled very carefully.

I would much rather my son one day visit a 'coffee shop' than a gang run tinny house.

In my short time I have known quite a few bad people and drug users. Seen illegal guns and 'deals' go down. I have never known a wife beating, child abusing person with an alcohol problem so as I see it from my experience there may be a greater drug problem in NZ than Alcohol problem but the Alocolics are doing more physical harm to the ones they love.

I don't do drugs, other than drinking a few beers now and then.

I agree with you that I'd want my son and daughter to go to the coffee shop, as opposed to the tinny house. The DEA in the US, the largest drug enforcement agency in the world, has said, very quietly, in their own studies that the gateway theory; use pot, you'll do other drugs, is not accurate. I do agree that going to the gang tinny house would probably lead people to be more exposed to other drugs though. That's location oriented as opposed to chemical.

I personally think that being addicted to drugs isn't something I would ever want to be a slave to and, other than being an illness, can't understand why someone would do that to themselves. Look at the shitty teeth on those dope fiends! GROSS! But, that said, I'd rather the addicts get it for free or super cheap so that they aren't ripping us all off to get their money to score. Not everyone who uses addictive drugs becomes an addict. Apparently, 20% will. Thats why every person in hospital and on morphine doesn't get addicted.

As bikers, we need to remember that some people think motorcycles (and rugby for that matter) should be outlawed, due to the high cost of the treatment required for accidents, etc. I had read that ~40% of all ACC claims were sports related. Ever gone to the A and E on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon? Full of broken, bruised sporties. There is a certain logic, albeit twisted at times, to it all, but I think it gets down to personal responsibility.

Trans fats and sugar kill millions of people every year through heart disease, diabetes, etc., but McDonald's and the local fish and chips are alive and well. When do these real killers become outlawed? Food for thought (pun intended). It will never happen, but as people are better educated, they choose to eat better. Thats why McDonald's promote their "healthy" foods, not their burgers, fries and super duper sized cokes... Most of us chose not to do drugs, even though we could, because we know better, legal or not.

All this talk of food has me hungry, maybe a Big Mac and a beer would suffice?
Again, great responses.

[firefighter]

"Regulated like alcohol"

Oh how my sides hurt when I read that...regulated like alcohol - oh that's workign SO well eh!!

THE worst drug we have.....

I wonder if the 'other' drugs were legalised and 'regulated' if we would have the same chaos??.

I'm on the fence pretty much here, obviously I don't smoke and it doesn't at all bother me that I can't, but I have to ask, in all honesty, why is weed worse than tobacco??? because you sit around laughing until your sides hurt?

[MisterD]

doesnt that say more about the english and belgian fans than it does about the availability of like, you know, drugs and stuff.?

England fans not trashing the place after losing...no, I'd say that speaks volumes for the effects of cannabis. There probably wasn't a mars bar for 100 miles in any direction either

[scumdog]

I'm on the fence pretty much here, obviously I don't smoke and it doesn't at all bother me that I can't, but I have to ask, in all honesty, why is weed worse than tobacco??? because you sit around laughing until your sides hurt?

Meh, I wasn't comparing the two dude, I was talking about alcamahol, 'the cause of and the answer to all of our problems' as a certain gentleman once said...

[madandy]

A high percentage of NZer's regularly break the speed limit. Would increasing the speed limit reduce the number of speeders? I doubt it. Motorists would still push the bounds. So what about having no speed limits at all? Would that make roads safer? Definitely not, because too many people (esp young) lack the experience and/or maturity to operate safely in an unregulated environment.

I reckon it's the same with drugs. What we're eally trying to do here is protect our kids from something which they lack the experience and/or maturity to deal with themselves. Once they get to our age then it's up to them. I don't care if my neighbour is a pothead so long as it doesn't have a detrimental effect on others. But while our kids are young and vulnerable they deserve protecting.

So how do you protect the young while letting the adults exercvise their own discretion? I'm sad to say but it sounds like regulation might just do it. The big question remains: what regulation? Alcohol regulations are a very poor example. Tobacco, not much better. I know there's an answer out there somewhere, but I can't see it yet.

Tobacco and alcohol require nothing but ID and money to purchase.
An endoresment to use pot/alcolhol/cigaretes, like a license may one day be employed to restrict the puchase of said drugs. That would push problem drinkers and smokers underground but then that underground already exists.

doesnt that say more about the english and belgian fans than it does about the availability of like, you know, drugs and stuff.?

It says to me that the Poms and Germans still hate each other after all these years.

I don't do drugs, other than drinking a few beers now and then.

I agree with you that I'd want my son and daughter to go to the coffee shop, as opposed to the tinny house. The DEA in the US, the largest drug enforcement agency in the world, has said, very quietly, in their own studies that the gateway theory; use pot, you'll do other drugs, is not accurate. I do agree that going to the gang tinny house would probably lead people to be more exposed to other drugs though. That's location oriented as opposed to chemical.

I personally think that being addicted to drugs isn't something I would ever want to be a slave to and, other than being an illness, can't understand why someone would do that to themselves. Look at the shitty teeth on those dope fiends! GROSS! But, that said, I'd rather the addicts get it for free or super cheap so that they aren't ripping us all off to get their money to score. Not everyone who uses addictive drugs becomes an addict. Apparently, 20% will. Thats why every person in hospital and on morphine doesn't get addicted.

As bikers, we need to remember that some people think motorcycles (and rugby for that matter) should be outlawed, due to the high cost of the treatment required for accidents, etc. I had read that ~40% of all ACC claims were sports related. Ever gone to the A and E on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon? Full of broken, bruised sporties. There is a certain logic, albeit twisted at times, to it all, but I think it gets down to personal responsibility.

Trans fats and sugar kill millions of people every year through heart disease, diabetes, etc., but McDonald's and the local fish and chips are alive and well. When do these real killers become outlawed? Food for thought (pun intended). It will never happen, but as people are better educated, they choose to eat better. Thats why McDonald's promote their "healthy" foods, not their burgers, fries and super duper sized cokes... Most of us chose not to do drugs, even though we could, because we know better, legal or not.

All this talk of food has me hungry, maybe a Big Mac and a beer would suffice?
Again, great responses.

It goes way past visiting a tinny house. People after a frequent supply go beyond the $20 foil and head to the suppliers for larger amounts.
Addiction is what keeps people coming back for more and becoming more and more desperate.
Cigarette smokers know the feeling.

I don't think you get a very big dose of Morphine in Hospital do you. And the treatment is kept as brief as possible as long term use is addictive. My partner was on Morphine afer her C section last year and felt only mild pain releif. The druggies take much larger doses too.

It may be hard to understand as you've been smart enough not to walk that path but making hard drugs more available to those with habits is not going to solve anything at all. OK maybe they'll back off the crime to fund their habits but I beleive we'd have a larger number of people in the dire straights of drug hell.