Should we end the drug war in NZ?

**jrandom** · 8th July 2008, 14:53

Originally Posted by scumdog

I doubt many will have thought "Shit, I never knew THAT was a possible outcome" as their life goes down the gurgler...

Now, now, let's not get carried away.

Most would, I think, agree that legalising drugs like heroin and methamphetamine would be a very dodgy idea.

It's a shame when people use that as a strawman argument against cannabis law reform, though.

**alanzs** · 8th July 2008, 14:54

Originally Posted by jrandom

Maybe if cannabis was legal, commercially quality-controlled, and cheaper, folk would spend more time baked and happy and less time drunk and angry?

Flawed analogy.

The barracuda's already in the pool, and it'll always be in the pool - this is a question of taming it, fencing it off and selling tickets to see it instead of pretending that it's not there and then making futile posturings about getting rid of it every time people go swimming and get bitten.

Great discussions this thread has provoked. I think a lot of people probably didn't read the first post of the thread, they just saw the sensational title of the post and have reacted.

The issue of drugs is like the emperor who has no clothes on. We all can see it, we all know it's not working, but nobody wants to say anything to stop it.

There is an interesting book about the "drug war," called "The Emperor Has No Clothes" by Jack Herer, a famous pro-sense approach activist rallying against the no-sense approach most governments have taken in the challenge of drug abuse.

Thanks for your comments....

**rachprice** · 8th July 2008, 17:09

Originally Posted by firefighter

Yep, but it has been proven to have twice the amount of tar in it compared with tobacco, i'm not for or against the stuff, just know whats in it, check it on google.It's not nearly as innocent as I at a younger age percieved it to be, and I saw one of my stoner mates from high school recently, still on it, thick as shit, and when I took it so was I.you can't tell me the shit doesn't hurt your brain at all.....just because there's no "scientific" evidence, doesn't mean you ignore what's right in front of your face, it does make people simple.

Where is the evidence that it makes you thick as shit though? He could just thick as shit naturally! Things may be associative but not causative. It has however been proven to affect the short term memory with heavy use, though this is reversible.
I tend to base my opinions on facts and not perceptions
And by the way google isn't the most reliable source in the world
And yes it does have alot of tar and if but if you take out the smoking route it actually has anti-cancer properties.

**rachprice** · 8th July 2008, 17:16

Originally Posted by alanzs

Great discussions this thread has provoked. I think a lot of people probably didn't read the first post of the thread, they just saw the sensational title of the post and have reacted.

The issue of drugs is like the emperor who has no clothes on. We all can see it, we all know it's not working, but nobody wants to say anything to stop it.

There is an interesting book about the "drug war," called "The Emperor Has No Clothes" by Jack Herer, a famous pro-sense approach activist rallying against the no-sense approach most governments have taken in the challenge of drug abuse.

Thanks for your comments....

I admit that was probably me

! Just reacted...i did kind of skim first though. Its one of those topics though that divides people!

**98tls** · 8th July 2008, 17:44

Originally Posted by random

Now, now, let's not get carried away.

Most would, I think, agree that legalising drugs like heroin and methamphetamine would be a very dodgy idea.

It's a shame when people use that as a straw man argument against cannabis law reform, though.

Yea legalise why not,whilst we are at lets look after all the bludgers and get Social Welfare (or has it had yet another name change) to hand out bags to the underpriviledged,you can bet your boots in many cases there (our) money wouldnt go on meat and veg if they could buy a bag of dope down the local 4 square for medicinal/spiritual purposes.

**ambler** · 8th July 2008, 17:50

Originally Posted by scumdog

OK, just to make it simple - there a CAGED barracuda in thepool and some people get into the cage with it with quite a few being bitten......and certain people want to release it.

But let's remember that even after the barracuda is released from the cage, it can't just go swimming around the pool and bite people as you're implying. Sensible people who keep their distance from it will remain as safe as they were when it was caged.

**rachprice** · 8th July 2008, 18:29

Originally Posted by 98tls

Yea legalise why not,whilst we are at lets look after all the bludgers and get Social Welfare (or has it had yet another name change) to hand out bags to the underpriviledged,you can bet your boots in many cases there (our) money wouldnt go on meat and veg if they could buy a bag of dope down the local 4 square for medicinal/spiritual purposes.

If it were to be allowed for mecidinal purposes I doubt you could get it at a 4 square, it would be strictly controlled!
But I agree that the dole/social welfare needs to be re-addressed, my mum taught at/I went to, a decile one (poorest you can get) school in levin and on dole day you would see the parents carrying 24 packs of booze yet their children wouldn't have breakfast or lunch all week!
Im not sure changing legislation on cannabis would alter the patterns of the people you mention though, they are probably using it no matter what the legislation is.

**Mikkel** · 8th July 2008, 18:37

Originally Posted by 98tls

Yea legalise why not,whilst we are at lets look after all the bludgers and get Social Welfare (or has it had yet another name change) to hand out bags to the underpriviledged,you can bet your boots in many cases there (our) money wouldnt go on meat and veg if they could buy a bag of dope down the local 4 square for medicinal/spiritual purposes.

Are you implying that only those who are underpriviledged are doing drugs?

**98tls** · 8th July 2008, 18:58

Originally Posted by Mikkel

Are you implying that only those who are underpriviledged are doing drugs?

Never,it seems lazy fuckers get the same rights in this country as the rest of us,it would be so un pc for one group to miss out and as social welfare dishes out for everything else they might just as well give out free bags with the weekly dole check that way it wouldnt eat into there booze money.

**Niterider** · 8th July 2008, 18:58

Original quote from Alanzs :"The mission of the criminal justice system should always be to protect us from one another and not from ourselves. That means that drug users who drive a motor vehicle or commit other crimes while under the influence of these drugs would continue to be held criminally responsible for their actions, with strict penalties. But that said, the system should not be used to protect us from ourselves."

I agree. Just as no one can ban or stop or punish

suicide, it is as stupid to try and protect people from themselves. I would add though - bring back death penalty for murder or if a druggie kills any person by any means, weather by driving a car into a croud or whacking someone over the head. That will cause lots of people thinking twice before they buy the crap and we won't need to sponsor their jail life until they die of old age. If there are no buyers, problem solved!!!!

**Niterider** · 8th July 2008, 19:07

Oh , btw, as soon as you have a criminal record, NO MORE HUMAN RIGHTS FOR YOU!!! You screwed your chances yourself!!!!!

I say, let's vote Leighton Smith from NewstalkZB into power and see a few things change BIG TIME in this country. I don't agree with all his ideas, but definately far more than the pc government.

**Mikkel** · 8th July 2008, 22:47

Originally Posted by 98tls

Never,it seems lazy fuckers get the same rights in this country as the rest of us,it would be so un pc for one group to miss out and as social welfare dishes out for everything else they might just as well give out free bags with the weekly dole check that way it wouldnt eat into there booze money.

Are you, by this statement, implying that "lazy fuckers" shouldn't have the same rights as everybody else?

**scumdog** · 9th July 2008, 01:08

Originally Posted by ambler

But let's remember that even after the barracuda is released from the cage, it can't just go swimming around the pool and bite people as you're implying. Sensible people who keep their distance from it will remain as safe as they were when it was caged.

Hah!
Your argument fell over as soon as I saw the word 'sensible'.!!

Sadly the world ain't overburdened with 'sensible' people - especially when it comes to drug consumtion..