Tyres for SV650S

[Pussy]

For the price of making an SV great you can buy a GSXR which is already great. But even then you will have people saying you need to spend over 10 grand on aftermarket stuff to get it right.

Depends on what you want to do. Out of the box, a GSX-R is not bad, but not startling.
Throwing a gixxer front end at an SV isn't a five minute job, and requires a lot of work to get the geometry right.
The difference to Gassit Girl's SV with Ohlins springs, Traxxion damper rods, Ohlins oil and custom set emulator poppet spring preload and rate was incredible. It made a budget set of forks perform like well set up cartridge forks, for just over a grand including everything

[GSVR]

Depends on what you want to do. Out of the box, a GSX-R is not bad, but not startling.
Throwing a gixxer front end at an SV isn't a five minute job, and requires a lot of work to get the geometry right.
The difference to Gassit Girl's SV with Ohlins springs, Traxxion damper rods, Ohlins oil and custom set emulator poppet spring preload and rate was incredible. It made a budget set of forks perform like well set up cartridge forks, for just over a grand including everything

But what did you do about the SV's horrible front brakes?

[Devil]

Because of the dodgy forks they dont like big rounded / squarish or worn/ scalloped front tyres (harsh high speed compression damping + leverage = bump steer at moderate lean angles).

Agree! Feels terrible!

[Pussy]

But what did you do about the SV's horrible front brakes?

We put Castrol Response Super DOT 4 fluid in(the stuff that comes in the silver bottle), made a good improvement.
Gassit Girl didn't race her SV, it was just her road bike

[moT]

shinkos or kendas are my preffered brand

[svr]

We put Castrol Response Super DOT 4 fluid in(the stuff that comes in the silver bottle), made a good improvement.
Gassit Girl didn't race her SV, it was just her road bike

SV forks flex and the brakes fade with all oils. And they look crap...
You can get gsxr forks with radial brakes for about 1k. Its not a 5 min job it takes maybe about 3 hours (emulators etc about 1 1/2 hours)
Having done both I recommend to anyone that will listen to do the conversion.
I traded my gsxr600 on an sv. The sv now owes me about 17k and handles about as well as the old gixer... (but with 20 less hp).
Nothing rational about spending money `improving' your bike - and its a lot cheaper for the factory to build it right from the start!

[Pussy]

The sv now owes me about 17k and handles about as well as the old gixer... (but with 20 less hp).
Nothing rational about spending money `improving' your bike - and its a lot cheaper for the factory to build it right from the start!

But you've spent 17K on a 2001 SV650, when you can get a brand new one for 11K?

Gixxer front ends may be an easy fit for a F3 bike (no speedo etc), if you like the stock valving, and don't mind changed geometry

[Robert Taylor]

I think its a little misleading to make a generalised comment about specific brands of tyre performance when there are so many dynamic variables that affect same. For example a specific brand, model and compound of tyre may feel very good on bike brand 'a' but will feel very average or even horrible on bike brand 'b'. The steering geometry, how the bike fore and aft weight transfers and the suspension calibration will all affect tyre performance and feel to the rider. It is overlooked how tyres are also part of the suspension action and how both should play their percentage part. In extreme cases such as ( for example ) the VTR1000 and the old Suzuki TLS / Rs the suspension was so non compliant and burdened with friction that the response to surface irregularities was abysmally bad, this meant that the tyres were attempting to carry much more of the burden of bump absorption. And this is exactly why bikes like these screw their tyres in a very short time. Ive ofen shaken my head when riders of these bikes have blamed the tyres when the tyres are not the source of the problem !!!
The standard SV forks are so woefully short of damping response that FRANKLY I dont think you can accurately assess the true performance of any front tyre on that bike. And in fairness a few other models with damper rod forks.
A word about the Traxxion damper rods that Pussy mentioned. The advantage with these is that they are actually straight and the bottom seating surface has more clamping surface area so that when bolted in, the damper rod centreline is actually on the same centreline as the fork tubes! This, allied with a top hat that is more closely toleranced means that there isnt a whole load of uncontrolled bleed as with the standard rods. The rebound hole size and this tight tolerancing means that when combined with a high quality wide temperature stability oil the performance is a lot more stable than with standard rods. Because of these advantages we have just landed more of these rods ex Traxxion. Added cost, yes. Better job, most definitely yes.
In deference to 'GSVR' pondering why certain manufacturers dont do 'this or that' the answer is simple, cost reduction. Fact.
And I have little idea where the 10k figure came from? Stock suspension on all makes and models can be improved, often substanially. And for less than half of 10 k using the very good bits. Or less again. Its a choice between a desire for excellence or an acceptance of mediocrity. As for me I always aspire to improve things and to my knowledge I dont yet think that is a crime.

[Robert Taylor]

SV forks flex and the brakes fade with all oils. And they look crap...
You can get gsxr forks with radial brakes for about 1k. Its not a 5 min job it takes maybe about 3 hours (emulators etc about 1 1/2 hours)
Having done both I recommend to anyone that will listen to do the conversion.
I traded my gsxr600 on an sv. The sv now owes me about 17k and handles about as well as the old gixer... (but with 20 less hp).
Nothing rational about spending money `improving' your bike - and its a lot cheaper for the factory to build it right from the start!

In fairness I think we all forget that the SV650 is made as a commuter bike only, and the factory never intended for it to be raced. And of course for Pro Twins you are only allowed to run the stock forks, allowable mods emulators and springs.
Anyone looking to 'refork' these or any other bike has to be very mindful of whether its going to adversely affect the rake and trail figures.

[GSVR]

In deference to 'GSVR' pondering why certain manufacturers dont do 'this or that' the answer is simple, cost reduction. Fact.
And I have little idea where the 10k figure came from? Stock suspension on all makes and models can be improved, often substanially. And for less than half of 10 k using the very good bits. Or less again. Its a choice between a desire for excellence or an acceptance of mediocrity. As for me I always aspire to improve things and to my knowledge I dont yet think that is a crime.

Actually Robert I was only pondering why the SV is fitted with a 60 profile front when SVR stated that a 70 offers more performance (according to SVR)? Maybe the 60 is a better tyre for the majority of riders that buy this bike.

The 10k was just a figure I plucked out of the sky. This is becuase there are people that will tell you to make a GSXR good it will need many aftermarket enhancements. Personally I think in stock form its better than 90% of the bikes on the road and 100% better than any HD so its all relative huh?

And people saying how this and that feels terrible on the SV its all relative again. It feels good compared to some of the other bikes I've owned in the past and some of them where great bikes in their day. Its a bit like someone saying that some cheap car doesn't perform like an expensive sportscar. But how many of these expensive sports cars do you see in the carparks at the supermarket? Hell if you turn up to a ride with a fast bike tricked out with all the top gear people are going to expect you to get a ticket. If you turn up on a standard GN250 and keep up thru the twistys with you'll get more respect from me.

[Devil]

I think its a little misleading to make a generalised comment about specific brands of tyre performance when there are so many dynamic variables that affect same. For example a specific brand, model and compound of tyre may feel very good on bike brand 'a' but will feel very average or even horrible on bike brand 'b'. The steering geometry, how the bike fore and aft weight transfers and the suspension calibration will all affect tyre performance and feel to the rider. It is overlooked how tyres are also part of the suspension action and how both should play their percentage part.

This is what I was wanting to say when referring to how the different tyre curvatures affect the handling of a bike and how some just dont suit certain bikes, but couldn't be arsed with so many words! Now get back to improving your turn-around time, Robert!

[Robert Taylor]

Actually Robert I was only pondering why the SV is fitted with a 60 profile front when SVR stated that a 70 offers more performance (according to SVR)? Maybe the 60 is a better tyre for the majority of riders that buy this bike.

The 10k was just a figure I plucked out of the sky. This is becuase there are people that will tell you to make a GSXR good it will need many aftermarket enhancements. Personally I think in stock form its better than 90% of the bikes on the road and 100% better than any HD so its all relative huh?

And people saying how this and that feels terrible on the SV its all relative again. It feels good compared to some of the other bikes I've owned in the past and some of them where great bikes in their day. Its a bit like someone saying that some cheap car doesn't perform like an expensive sportscar. But how many of these expensive sports cars do you see in the carparks at the supermarket? Hell if you turn up to a ride with a fast bike tricked out with all the top gear people are going to expect you to get a ticket. If you turn up on a standard GN250 and keep up thru the twistys with you'll get more respect from me.

Tall poppy syndrome? Same rider, stock bike and then same bike tricked out...what will be faster?
The reality is that many bikes with damper rod forks have woefully bad damping control and that is just unacceptable in this day and age. With that last commuter bike you cited do you realise you can bottom out the forks just pushing on them? Do you not think that that is in fact quite dangerous? How many commuters on these have suddenly grabbed a handful of brake, tucked the front and promptly fallen off?
Different people do indeed have different expectations and short of continually arguing the point I think what I said was a fair and worthwhile contribution. I didnt pluck anything out of the sky and therefore effectively mislead people. I remain unapologetic about having high expectations of how things should work and absolutely do not subscribe to the dumbing down now so prevalent in our society.

[GSVR]

Tall poppy syndrome? Same rider, stock bike and then same bike tricked out...what will be faster?

If the speed limit is 100kph the faster of the two may end up actually stopped due to demerit point limitations!

The reality is that many bikes with damper rod forks have woefully bad damping control and that is just unacceptable in this day and age. With that last commuter bike you cited do you realise you can bottom out the forks just pushing on them? Do you not think that that is in fact quite dangerous? How many commuters on these have suddenly grabbed a handful of brake, tucked the front and promptly fallen off?.

It was quite funny to see the wear on the brakes of my one owner bike when I brought it. The back brake disc was really worn and the front looked like it had hardly been touched. My conclusion was the rider used the back wheel as the main means of slowing down.

I think the reason comuter bikes have poor front brakes is to lessen the chances of the the rider going over the front panic braking. If they had better brakes they would not be as safe!

Everything has it limitations and a competent rider will know the limitations and not exceed them. My bikes got shit standard suspension and tyres that someone else rejected due to them not being grippy enough. I havent fallen off yet and when I do it will be most likely to be down to me not the bike!

Different people do indeed have different expectations and short of continually arguing the point I think what I said was a fair and worthwhile contribution. I didnt pluck anything out of the sky and therefore effectively mislead people. I remain unapologetic about having high expectations of how things should work and absolutely do not subscribe to the dumbing down now so prevalent in our society.

And I stand by assertion that its much better value to by a better bike in the first place than get a cheaper bike like an SV and try to get it to the same level of performance. Its not just the suspension, its the motor,brakes,overall weight and styling plus other factors I may have overlooked.

This thread was started by a guy wanting to know what tyres SV riders liked.
I tried to explan briefly that it depends on the sort of riding you do and the way your bikes set up will determine what tyre you would prefer. Devil made his point about the feel of different brands and profiles. All good. Others just spouted information with no real reasoning behind why.

Ideally I would prefer to fit new tyres every other week. But if I had a choice between this or being able to buy a better bike with the money I've saved in tyres alone the choice would be easy.

[Robert Taylor]

If the speed limit is 100kph the faster of the two may end up actually stopped due to demerit point limitations!



It was quite funny to see the wear on the brakes of my one owner bike when I brought it. The back brake disc was really worn and the front looked like it had hardly been touched. My conclusion was the rider used the back wheel as the main means of slowing down.

I think the reason comuter bikes have poor front brakes is to lessen the chances of the the rider going over the front panic braking. If they had better brakes they would not be as safe!

Everything has it limitations and a competent rider will know the limitations and not exceed them. My bikes got shit standard suspension and tyres that someone else rejected due to them not being grippy enough. I havent fallen off yet and when I do it will be most likely to be down to me not the bike!



And I stand by assertion that its much better value to by a better bike in the first place than get a cheaper bike like an SV and try to get it to the same level of performance. Its not just the suspension, its the motor,brakes,overall weight and styling plus other factors I may have overlooked.

This thread was started by a guy wanting to know what tyres SV riders liked.
I tried to explan briefly that it depends on the sort of riding you do and the way your bikes set up will determine what tyre you would prefer. Devil made his point about the feel of different brands and profiles. All good. Others just spouted information with no real reasoning behind why.

Ideally I would prefer to fit new tyres every other week. But if I had a choice between this or being able to buy a better bike with the money I've saved in tyres alone the choice would be easy.

Your skills in advocating mediocrity or worse are very admirable!

[Tony.OK]

I think the reason comuter bikes have poor front brakes is to lessen the chances of the the rider going over the front panic braking. If they had better brakes they would not be as safe!