New Zealand - The right to leave our country

[Grahameeboy]

Well, all things in moderation, including tolerance.

For example, were I to believe that the earth was flat, the moon was made of green cheese, and that both of them were sneezed from the nostril of the Great Green Arkleseizure, you would be correct to privately hold the opinion that I was an idiot.

Were I, however, to believe that the Great Green Arkleseizure had commanded me to redline my bike outside your bedroom window at 3am every morning, you would be correct to run outside and punch me in the nose.

No I would let someone else come out and do that as not my style

[rachprice]

because it implies that their 'disadvantage' is the most important and significant thing about either 'race' - and that's insulting to both



me too - i'm just a little too realistic to expect that legislating significant advantages for certain sectors of the community won't end up pissing the remainder of that community off to the extent it compounds the problem instead of eliminating it

good intentions, unfortunately, invariably end up making things worse

How the hell does my comment imply that their disadvantage is the most significant thing about their race, when did I say that? I am stating FACT (not opinion) that those particular races are disadvantaged, even then I was just using those races as examples!
There is legislation that looks after the whole population (working for families and the step-up scholarship for uni when your parents earn under a certain amount). But our current situation calls for special initiatives in areas such as health, for in particular Maori, because it has been shown that no matter what socioeconomic group they are in they still have a significantly worse life expectancy.
We DO need specific initiatives for specific groups of people to achieve equality.
But I agree that NZ seems a bit PC sometimes and seems to appease to certain groups an awful lot. I just think that some of these specific initiatives have their place, and are very important!

[Sanx]

Why, you respect whether or not you agree with their beliefs

Wrong. Respect needs to be earned; it doesn't just get given out because someone attaches the word religion to it. No-one expects your political views to be respected, or your support of a particular sports team, your fashion sense or any other aspect of your personality. Why should your choice of deity / imaginary friend be any different?

[Pedrostt500]

I thought have another beer mate she'll be right was our countries moto.

[Mikkel]

Wrong. Respect needs to be earned; it doesn't just get given out because someone attaches the word religion to it. No-one expects your political views to be respected, or your support of a particular sports team, your fashion sense or any other aspect of your personality. Why should your choice of deity / imaginary friend be any different?

Ah, the big R word.

You HAVE to respect other peoples right to HOLD a certain belief. Quite simply you HAVE to do this if you want other people to respect your right to choose what to believe.

However, that is not the same thing as you having to respect THAT belief in particular. Nor do you have to respect the individual for choosing that particular belief.

I can not remember who said it, regarding freedom of speech: "While I may never agree with neither your arguments nor your sentiments - I would happily lay down my life for your right to have them!" (adlibed by myself with an allowance for artistical expression (my memory is a bit murky)).

[Grahameeboy]

Wrong. Respect needs to be earned; it doesn't just get given out because someone attaches the word religion to it. No-one expects your political views to be respected, or your support of a particular sports team, your fashion sense or any other aspect of your personality. Why should your choice of deity / imaginary friend be any different?

We are talking about respecting someone's beliefs which is different to respecting the person for who they are etc.

[bc4eva]

YOU have the right to LEAVE!

After Wellington not wanting to offend other cultures
by putting up xmas lights. After hearing that we are
going to let Muslim woman have her picture on her drivers
license with her face covered.

This prompted this editorial written by a New Zealand Citizen.
Published in a newspaper.

Quote:

IMMIGRANTS , NOT NEW ZEALANDERS, MUST ADAPT. TAKE IT OR
LEAVE IT!

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
offending some individuals or their culture. I am not against
immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking
a better life by coming to New Zealand. However, there are a
few things that those who have recently come to our country and
apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of New Zealand being a multicultural community has
served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As New Zealanders, we have our own culture, our own society, our
own language and our own lifestyle. Our culture has been developed
over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions
of men and women who have sought freedom, even died for it.

We Speak ENGLISH or MAORI , not spanish, lebanese, arabic, chinese,
japanese, russian or any other lanuage. Therefore if you wish to
become part of New Zealand society, -- Learn the language! "In
God we trust "is our national Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because
Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this
nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate
to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then
it is recommended that you consider another part of the world as
your new home, Because God is part of our culture.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A FAIR GO",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and
we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, AND OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will
allow you every oportunity to enjoy all this. But once you
are done complaining, whining, and or griping about Our Flag,
Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way Of Life, then you
are Highly encourage to take advantage of one other great
New Zealand freedom.

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"

LEAVE

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you
to come here.

YOU asked to be here. So Accept the country YOU accepted.

Pretty easy really,when you think about it...

Signed: A New Zealander

Bloody Right On!

hahah a chick from my work forwarded this onto all staff which included our executive team and CEO.....there's definitely a time and place for this message...haha..

[mstriumph]

How the hell does my comment imply that their disadvantage is the most significant thing about their race, when did I say that? .................

your juxtapositioning of two such disparate cultural groups implied that

I just think that some of these specific initiatives have their place, and are very important!

.... and i just think they cause more problems than they are going to solve

i guess we just see things differently - that's allowed - especially on KB

[mstriumph]

We are talking about respecting someone's beliefs which is different to respecting the person for who they are etc.

if we REALLY respected the beliefs of others, we'd end up with a squillion more public holidays and every friday arvo off ...... sooooooo - i'm in favour!!

[Skyryder]

Respect is a two way thing. Don't see much with a sucide bomber or for that matter a gunmen outside an abortion clinic.


Skyryder

[Sanx]

Ah, the big R word.

You HAVE to respect other peoples right to HOLD a certain belief. Quite simply you HAVE to do this if you want other people to respect your right to choose what to believe.

However, that is not the same thing as you having to respect THAT belief in particular. Nor do you have to respect the individual for choosing that particular belief.

Oh, I fully support the right to believe whatever you like, provided (and this is the bit that most believers cannot accept) that you do not try to force those beliefs on others, including their children. But there is absolutely no reason that I should respect those beliefs, and refrain from questioning them or ridiculing them or acting in a way that is contrary to them, simply because you believe them.

If you choose to believe that there is an omniscient, omnipotent god and his messenger was an illiterate paedophile from Mecca (as my wife does) then you have every right to do so. But don't try to tell me that I have to believe that too. And don't tell your kids that this is the 'truth' before they are capable of understanding the full consequences of what you're instructing them to believe. A child is no more a jew, muslim, christian or hindu (or, indeed, an atheist) than he is a trade-unionist, neo-conservative or socialist. To indoctrinate a child in this way is nothing less than child abuse.

I can not remember who said it, regarding freedom of speech: "While I may never agree with neither your arguments nor your sentiments - I would happily lay down my life for your right to have them!" (adlibed by myself with an allowance for artistical expression (my memory is a bit murky)).

I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

(Exact wording subject to the vagaries of translation from French into English, and the fact he was known to say it more than once using different phraseology)

[Grahameeboy]

if we REALLY respected the beliefs of others, we'd end up with a squillion more public holidays and every friday arvo off ...... sooooooo - i'm in favour!!

Oh you mean how we all look forward to Whitanga Day even though the majority of Kiwi's don't respect the essence of the day....

[Mikkel]

Oh, I fully support the right to believe whatever you like, provided (and this is the bit that most believers cannot accept) that you do not try to force those beliefs on others, including their children. But there is absolutely no reason that I should respect those beliefs, and refrain from questioning them or ridiculing them or acting in a way that is contrary to them, simply because you believe them.

If you choose to believe that there is an omniscient, omnipotent god and his messenger was an illiterate paedophile from Mecca (as my wife does) then you have every right to do so. But don't try to tell me that I have to believe that too. And don't tell your kids that this is the 'truth' before they are capable of understanding the full consequences of what you're instructing them to believe. A child is no more a jew, muslim, christian or hindu (or, indeed, an atheist) than he is a trade-unionist, neo-conservative or socialist. To indoctrinate a child in this way is nothing less than child abuse.

In that case we agree most wholeheartedly. Indoctrination is a very bad thing indeed!

I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

(Exact wording subject to the vagaries of translation from French into English, and the fact he was known to say it more than once using different phraseology)

Sanx

[Badjelly]

You HAVE to respect other peoples right to HOLD a certain belief. Quite simply you HAVE to do this if you want other people to respect your right to choose what to believe.

However, that is not the same thing as you having to respect THAT belief in particular. Nor do you have to respect the individual for choosing that particular belief.

Nice one, Mikkel. I couldn't have put it better myself.

If you choose to believe that there is an omniscient, omnipotent god and his messenger was an illiterate paedophile from Mecca (as my wife does) then you have every right to do so.

So, how does that play out in your household?

[Sanx]

So, how does that play out in your household?

There have been some heated debates, certainly.