Ignition sensors

[koba]

Please excuse the lack of tecnically correct terms.

Im trying to find out more info on the sensors that generate the pulse signal for the ignition systems of modern bikes.

Are they pretty much all the same?

I have seen them before an know they have a sensor and a rotor vane thingy and can see how they work but what I need to know is what sort of signal comes out of them? - Is it a square wave on/off as soon as the signal comes from the sensor or is it a sine wave that is later translated in the CDI box bit.


I want to know this because I am converting my old Volkswagen to run on a different ignition system but want it to be interchangable with bike so I can use the same system for bikes later on.

The volkswagen currently uses points so I'm going to graft the sensor (or whole dizzy) on from another car or use a bike one on the engine pully of flywheel.

[Motu]

It depends on what sort of signal generator it has - it can be an AC wave as in Honda's,or a sine wave converted to a square wave,or a hall effect square wave.

A CDI is different and you will need an AC voltage generator,these are high voltage (over 100v or so) and a low voltage ac trigger.If you are using an automotive system it won't be CDI.You can get a Japanese type (Mitsi,Mazda etc) that has an ignition module on the baseplate,or go for a euro type with an external module.

[koba]

It depends on what sort of signal generator it has - it can be an AC wave as in Honda's,or a sine wave converted to a square wave,or a hall effect square wave.

A CDI is different and you will need an AC voltage generator,these are high voltage (over 100v or so) and a low voltage ac trigger.If you are using an automotive system it won't be CDI.You can get a Japanese type (Mitsi,Mazda etc) that has an ignition module on the baseplate,or go for a euro type with an external module.

Cheers
I was kind of hoping that manufacturers had settled on a common system.
I'm soldering the thing together at the moment, I may just go and buy a hall effect sensor if I need to put it on a bike and use a jap hall effect dizzy on the volksie for now.
Volkswagens run the hotter running cylinder 3 retarded by a degree or so too so multiple vanes on the sensor is good so I can have a go with a file :s

Should be interesting to play with it on a bucket, single cylinder too so nice and simple.

[Motu]

Not many Jap cars used hall effect,it was more a yank thing.I was reading on a US site last week about someone using points to trigger a GM HEI module for a motorcycle set up.I'm not sure of the internal workings of a HEI module....but I have some external mount modules that were used on a few Euro cars and some Jap stuff.I'd have to do some reshearch and see if I could trigger them with points.I was going to do a similar thing with an XS650...just put in a backing plate and cam etc.But keeping points just for a trigger is sort of a half way thing that has advantages.

[koba]

yeah, I can trigger this lot with points but figured I may aswell get rid of them if I can.

I am slowly realising there is alot of different systems out there!

I will just have to take a trip to pick a part and go dizzy shopping, Will the build it around what fits on the volkswagen easy.

[davereid]

Interesting project.

I'm actually doing something similar, I'm converting a Series II Jag to EFI, so I have been doing a bit of research.

There are three major systems you may find on a vehicle excluding points.

Simple engines, often have a CDi which gets its firing voltage from a special stator coil, and its timing pulse from a different coil. Some times there will be several timing pulses to provide advance.

The first cousin of this is a reluctor, in which a lump of metal whips past a charged coil, changing its reluctance and giving you a voltage pulse.

The next step is Hall effect. This is very similar to a reluctor, and uses the same principle, except the metal vane goes between a magnet and the sensor through a slot.

Hall effect sensors look like opto- sensors, in which a light shines between a LED and a sensor. The beam of light is broken by a metal vane. Seldom found in vehicles as the sensors don't like dirt.

[koba]

I can use any of those on this system, each one needs different imput circuitry tho.
It would be nice If I could measure it properly but I don't have the gear.

I should be able to find some intergrated system that has a square wave output, nice and simple that way.

[davereid]

Yeah, you really need a 'scope to see what you are getting, although I found I could see the pulses just with an LED and 380 ohm series resistor.

[locomotive]

Try using a Lumenition system. Have a look at the link below, might help.

www.lowflying.dk/images/PMA50ins.pdf

[locomotive]

This is a little more involved. We used a Megasquirt Fuel injection system. Took some setting up but works well. This is a Megajolt system, have a peek.

http://www.autosportlabs.net/Main_Page

[koba]

This is a little more involved. We used a Megasquirt Fuel injection system. Took some setting up but works well. This is a Megajolt system, have a peek.

http://www.autosportlabs.net/Main_Page

Cheers,
I've got reading to do.