$92,000

[jrandom]

Damn straight!

FREE money??? Hello?

See, even KB's financial guru agrees.



Here's some thoughts fo' tha G-unit to ponder.

Option 1

Year 1: Try to save $90K. If you can. Big 'if'.

Year 2: Spend that $90K in Oz on getting a pilot's licence.

Beginning of Year 3: You're a debt-free qualified pilot.

Option 2

Year 1: Get pilot's licence in NZ with interest-free student loan.

Beginning of Year 2: You owe $90K on a cheaper-than-a-mortgage interest rate and are a qualified pilot.

Frankly, I like option 2 way better. Zero risk, jump-starts your career.

[R6_kid:Me]

That's a hefty price for a CPL! Mine took about $40k... Then MEIR was maybe another $20k max, and I trained at chargemore flying school. (course that was 7 years ago)

I reckon ya do it here then convert to Aussie. Seems NZ is fairly cheap to train compared to the rest of the world. $170/hr for a C152 at Airline flying club where I work... but I'm grounded and in plaster at the moment

How much are you earning/how many hours are you flying a week?

This was for a guaranteed job at the end of 260 odd hours, starting pay of around $70k...

Another institution was offering $92k Australian for a CPL + MEIR and a job at the end of it earning $55k if you get in with Macair/Pelair, or less if you end up doing commuter/sight seeing for 'seaair' on a C208.

$92k is what I was told to budget for, the lower value being around $84k. What makes this particular course different is that twin time is higher than usual, there is a lot of ILS and instrument flying done on the course, multi time is done in the Baron and Cessna 402, it also includes basic gas turbine and a rating on a Cessna Citation - then a job flying a Citation at the end, earning around $70-75k start rate. All training up to CPL level is down with no more than 4:1 student to instructor ration. It's $71k for the Aussie CPL with the twin time + MEIR, and then another 12k-20k for the Citation rating etc which gets you the job at the end of it.

Compare this with an $80k+ student loan (some of my friends are already over the 100k mark and yet to get a job), with the off chance of getting a job at eagle air/great barrier airlines (if i'm lucky), or earning $20-30k a year as an instructor for a few years until I can get a job that will actually pay the bills without needing secondary income. Correct me if i'm wrong but instructors in New Zealand don't get paid too much?

[tri boy]

More money to be made behind the controls of one of BHP/Hammersley Iron ore trains.
No annoying passengers, great scenery trundling through the Pilbara, and no chance of falling out of the sky/being hijacked/getting aid's from one of the cabin crew.
Flying, ppfftt, it's for the birds.

[mark247]

Join the airforce, they pay you to become a pilot from scratch if you are good enough.

Or, buy a share ( one 16th or something ) in a plane and learn to fly on the cheap, get private licence, then join airforce and fly twin engine aircraft.. get your twin engine time up, then the airlines will love you.

[mark247]

More money to be made behind the controls of one of BHP/Hammersley Iron ore trains.
No annoying passengers, great scenery trundling through the Pilbara, and no chance of falling out of the sky/being hijacked/getting aid's from one of the cabin crew.
Flying, ppfftt, it's for the birds.

Can you get paid $250,000 a year doing that? That's around what a experienced top airline pilot gets, possibly even more with some airlines

[tri boy]

Can you get paid $250,000 a year doing that? That's around what a experienced top airline pilot gets, possibly even more with some airlines

Yep. 10yrs ago they were earning $160k for 4days on, n 2 off. Taxi would pick them up for work, food, o/night accom (if required) etc all payed by the company.
Most of NZ's decent loco drivers pissed off to Aus in the 70's, and now the boom is bigger than ever.

$250,000 will get a big mining company 1 1/2 industrial electricians. Small change.

[R6_kid:Me]

Join the airforce, they pay you to become a pilot from scratch if you are good enough.

Or, buy a share ( one 16th or something ) in a plane and learn to fly on the cheap, get private licence, then join airforce and fly twin engine aircraft.. get your twin engine time up, then the airlines will love you.

Considered this option, and have been down that road. Ten year tie in, and not flying for all of those 10 years kind of put me off. Also, military flying doesn't always count out in the real world - infact some airlines dont even recognise it. And just so you know, the more private hours you have, the less likely the Air Force is to take you on.

Further more, my friend is currently in the Air Force and is now on operational conversion to the C-130, he earns what I earn now, and said he wishes he'd just taken the Civie route.

I'd prefer to do my training through a school with ties to airlines, its more professional and provides a structured environment to learn in. I certainly don't want to do pay as you go - a friend of mine is doing it this way and is only now at PPL after nearly two years.

[Patch]

Wouldn't waste ya time with our little dork force, just piss off to Aussie - bigger country more opportunities etc etc.

NZ is fast becoming one big tourist destination . . . if you can afford to "live" here (other than exist)

[Dakara]

How much are you earning/how many hours are you flying a week?

This was for a guaranteed job at the end of 260 odd hours, starting pay of around $70k...

Another institution was offering $92k Australian for a CPL + MEIR and a job at the end of it earning $55k if you get in with Macair/Pelair, or less if you end up doing commuter/sight seeing for 'seaair' on a C208.

$92k is what I was told to budget for, the lower value being around $84k. What makes this particular course different is that twin time is higher than usual, there is a lot of ILS and instrument flying done on the course, multi time is done in the Baron and Cessna 402, it also includes basic gas turbine and a rating on a Cessna Citation - then a job flying a Citation at the end, earning around $70-75k start rate. All training up to CPL level is down with no more than 4:1 student to instructor ration. It's $71k for the Aussie CPL with the twin time + MEIR, and then another 12k-20k for the Citation rating etc which gets you the job at the end of it.

Compare this with an $80k+ student loan (some of my friends are already over the 100k mark and yet to get a job), with the off chance of getting a job at eagle air/great barrier airlines (if i'm lucky), or earning $20-30k a year as an instructor for a few years until I can get a job that will actually pay the bills without needing secondary income. Correct me if i'm wrong but instructors in New Zealand don't get paid too much?

Yea I earn stuff all, but that's because I'm only doing it part-time on weekends. I earn $20 per flying hour and get about 6 hours a week. Was offered $25 an hour in Thames but the commute would cost me too much.

I've been in the Aviation Industry here for 7 years now (casually) and will jump in full-time if/when I get offered an Airline job (have one on the cards, starting in October). One thing I've learnt is if an offer sounds too good to be true... it probably is. Those salaries you've quoted most Pilots don't see until they're 3rd job after climbing the ladder (i.e. Instructor - Eagle - AirNZ). I know 2 companies here, Airwork and Airfreight who pay close to that from day 1 as it's mostly night flying, but you still need over 1000 hours (atleast) to be considered.

A mate of mine, went to Oz on the notion that after completing a course he'd be flying jets and paid heaps to do so, but after his CPL spent 4 years instructing (didn't read the fine print). So I'd be very careful about comitting that amount of money with the gaurentee of a Citation job after 260 hours... if that were the case, every pilot and his dog would apply!! Shit I know Air Nelson Captains and Air NZ first officers who'd be attracted by those salaries... and so if they could attract Airline pilots with those numbers, why would they hire a fresh CPL?

I'm not bagging your idea, if it works out for you then great!! But I'd be very careful and do a heap of research before commiting any money. Have you heard of CTC Aviation here in Hamilton? Last I heard, they're gaurenteeing people who do their course will go straight to Eagle with no interview... funny thing is, I spoke to Eagle and they said "No, we never agreed to that, we ran a trial with 4 of their instructors and 1 of them failed the inital check to line. so no, we don't have an arangement with them". So places make a whole lot of promises to get you in, but often they're empty. Also, never pay the whole amount upfront as a few places have gone under, taking all their students money with them!! Just like the finance companies...

Sorry it's long winded and hope it makes sense... I'm typing with my left hand

[imdying]

Sorry it's long winded and hope it makes sense... I'm typing with my left hand

Hopefully not flying with the right!

[avgas]

hate to say it but unless you have skills of some sort getting 90K in 6 months in pretty much near impossible.
Mate is working in perth right now, real moron - but he works hard and long (16 hour shifts, 5 day weeks). He's on 70K+car. He started on 50K+car.
Why not sit pilot license here and pay it back interest free? a few people i know have done that, one has now packed up after finishing and gone to India to find work, comes back here every 6 months so no interest on the loan

[R6_kid:Me]

Have you heard of CTC Aviation here in Hamilton? Last I heard, they're gaurenteeing people who do their course will go straight to Eagle with no interview

Yep, I sent them an email last week and was told to call them tomorrow some time to arrange to go down and check it out. I have read that two pilots on the most recent CTC course have secured jobs at Eagle, one of them is apparently 19yo and had only done 180hr TT - so yet to finish CPL even. I think the level that these schools are training to is slightly above par compared to places like ardmore and christchurch.

Cadetships are where it's at. I'm waiting to hear back from the guy who runs the outfit i'm interested in. The catch is that the school does the training and type ratings on the Citation for the corporate charter airline as it is, so they train you to that level from the very start, and you only get the seat if you make the grade, which is higher than just passing to get your CPL + MEIR quals.

Never pay the whole amount upfront as a few places have gone under, taking all their students money with them!! Just like the finance companies...

Don't intend to, the course in Australia needs to be paid 20% at a time, with the next lot going in before the previous amount is used up. Seems fair enough.

hate to say it but unless you have skills of some sort getting 90K in 6 months in pretty much near impossible.

It's looking more like i'll work my ass off doing mine related computer work in Aussie, saving as much as I can and then getting a bank loan to make up the rest (probably gaurantored by my father)

[DMNTD:Me]

...that have no legal implications.

Oh...never mind

[CookMySock]

I'd go to aussie. And email the bugger I owed the 92k to and tell him to sing for it..

DB

[Dakara]

Yep, I sent them an email last week and was told to call them tomorrow some time to arrange to go down and check it out. I have read that two pilots on the most recent CTC course have secured jobs at Eagle, one of them is apparently 19yo and had only done 180hr TT - so yet to finish CPL even. I think the level that these schools are training to is slightly above par compared to places like ardmore and christchurch.

I'd be very careful believing that... I know half the pilots at Eagle (probably not half, but quite a lot of them!!) the lowest hour pilot they've taken to date had about 600TT half of which was Multi. I have over 100 multi, and when I asked the powers that be at Eagle if I did the CTC Airline course would I get a job with my experience (as I'd been told the same as you) and they said probably not...

To put things into perspective, a pilot going to Eagle with nothing more than a CPL and MEIR could never get a command as they wouldn't meet the ATPL requirements flying as a co.

Long story short, CTC is full of shit, they offered me an interview as an instructor and I told em where to go. Word is they're struggling at the moment, and they're current batch of pilots is about 800 hours behind schedule... i.e. dudes with 400 hour CPL's. No one with any sense wants to work for them, they tried to pinch my current CFI and he told them to piss off, so all they're instructors are CTC students, none of which have any solid "Aviation" experience.

Remember, Airlines want people who can fly not just manage an Autopilot which is what CTC teaches... Basically they're developing a reputation as the next "Massey" which aint a good one. While some of them do go to Eagle, most other Airlines wont touch they're pilots. So CTC definitely doesn't train to a higher standard. They like to think they do, but they don't. At Aeroclubs, or even Ardmore flying school, they teach you how to fly. Who cares that some CTC cadet can programme an Autopilot, if Eagle don't take him, no one else will cos hed jump into a plane and ask where the "On" switch is. Teaching someone to fly an Airliner from day 1 is like teaching someone to surf before they can swim. Sure it's possible, but if he falls of the board he's fucked.

Cadetships are where it's at. I'm waiting to hear back from the guy who runs the outfit i'm interested in. The catch is that the school does the training and type ratings on the Citation for the corporate charter airline as it is, so they train you to that level from the very start, and you only get the seat if you make the grade, which is higher than just passing to get your CPL + MEIR quals.

If it is as you say then go for it!! Just don't rush in blind and read the fine print The hidden catch might be that all your experience will be from the Right hand seat only logging Co pilot time, never giving the experience required for an ATPL and a command. The requirements in NZ for an ATPL are as such that you need to instruct or fly charters for a few years to get the command and night time required... I imagine Oz is the same.

Don't intend to, the course in Australia needs to be paid 20% at a time, with the next lot going in before the previous amount is used up. Seems fair enough.

It's looking more like i'll work my ass off doing mine related computer work in Aussie, saving as much as I can and then getting a bank loan to make up the rest (probably gaurantored by my father)

That's a good plan, pay as you go is best as you can pay it as you earn it, and if something happens you don't need to try and get your $$ back.

So I suppose, to sum everything up...

Back when I started, if I saw this opportunity you couldn't have got me to Oz fast enough! It sounds amazing!!

Knowing what I know now? I'm glad I've done it the hard way...