Racetech gold valve install - self-install?

[CookMySock]

DB, be aware that the valving specs on the Racetech site can be quite unsuitable for what you might need. [...] You may have to do LOTS of trial and error

Yes I picked that earlier. I think you might see by now, money is my issue, not time. I would dearly love to chuck a grand at the front, and then again at the rear, but the bike isn't worth that much, and I don't have the cash anyway. I can't even buy the racetech stuff until I have cleared up some other toys. It's 300 ish to do it myself, 900 ish to have it done for me. The 600 difference comes straight out of my arse.

If my setup is crap, and the forks have to spend $300 worth of time on Roberts Dyno, then its still much cheaper.

The only problem I have, is if I bork the install badly, and thats looking more and more unlikely.

DB

[Squiggles]

Yes I picked that earlier. I think you might see by now, money is my issue, not time. I would dearly love to chuck a grand at the front, and then again at the rear, but the bike isn't worth that much, and I don't have the cash anyway. I can't even buy the racetech stuff until I have cleared up some other toys. It's 300 ish to do it myself, 900 ish to have it done for me. The 600 difference comes straight out of my arse.

If my setup is crap, and the forks have to spend $300 worth of time on Roberts Dyno, then its still much cheaper.

The only problem I have, is if I bork the install badly, and thats looking more and more unlikely.

DB

If you screw the install, what they're going to have to do to fix it will be more work than just having them install it, because they'll have to check your doubtful standard of work at the same time. How do you rate your chances of not only getting the install correct, but getting the correct settings at the same time? Are you going to be able to afford to pull them apart again if you arent quite right?

I wouldnt follow yank guides on forums, they seem to butcher alot of stuff without a clue...

[Robert Taylor]

fucken easy as to install emulator kit and spring kit to sv650. and even drilling out the holes is childs play. the most testing bit is undoing the each allen bolt at the bottom of each fork leg without deforming. this just comes down to technique.

Indeed but have you also accounted for all of the following detail points that are not so well mentioned or not mentioned at all;

1) If you drill the extra holes in the bottom of the damper rods exactly as Race Tech describe how to do it do you realise that you in fact end up with a ''dead'' area of rebound damping on initial return from at or near full closed position? And that dead area of rebound is exactly proportional to the distance that the furtherest new hole is displaced from the original holes.
In a short stroke road race fork that becomes a real issue. If you are skeptical about what I say get a set of forks dyno'd that have been modified the way the instruction sheet says and then a second set that takes well into account what I have just stated.

2) Do you also realise that many damper rods dont pull centrally into line with the main tubes when the lockbolt is torqued up? If the damper rod is offset to one side ( they very often are ) that impacts quite noticably on damping performance. The top hat piston ring on the damper rod is squeezed to one side and doesnt seal on the opposite side giving a lot of uncontrolled bleed on both compression and rebound strokes

3) Rebound control is in fact the biggest achilles heel of damper rod forks, whether an emulator is fitted or not. I wonder aloud how many have installed oil ''weight'' according to the attached gospel and in fact the result has been either overfast or overslow rebound, if overslow that is always a recipe for crashing. Only experience engenders a feel for correct rebound speed

4) Precise setting of preload turns on the poppett, its amazing how many get this wrong

5) Main spring preload setting to achieve correct sag ratios

ETC.....

Emulators are a LOT simpler to instal than piston kits and valving into cartridge forks.

What I am saying here is that the success of the job lies in experience ( no apologies for stating that ) and a keen attention to detail that the instruction sheets are unable to engender.

[Robert Taylor]

DB, be aware that the valving specs on the Racetech site can be quite unsuitable for what you might need. I have personally seen one of their rebound valving specs that was slower than the second coming of Christ. I have no idea what practical application it would have. And also bear in mind that oils ain't the same. You may have to do LOTS of trial and error

INDEED!!!!!!!!!! If we had implicitly trusted the setting progression chart it would have been all too easy to crash that bike. We have a very extensive database of dyno graphs of very well tested Ohlins damping curves, so what we did was to play with the valving on those Race Tech pistons until we were able to closely emulate the Ohlins curves and to have a decent response range. The shimming combination ended up being different to any of the Race Tech setting specs. That bike was taken to the track, the rider professed himself very happy with it and we made a very minor clicker change probably more because I was being fussy.
We can also achieve this with road going specs. The Race Tech stuff is good but like anything does also rely on the settings being dialed. This ( unapologetically ) relies on experience and careful attention to detail.

[Ivan]

I agree with Robert on correct sags.

I set the sag up on my bike and rode it and it was out by miles Robert did them for me and what a differnce completly differnt front end.

I say as a racer. Suspension is important in feeling comfortable and it may cost that extra ammount but get it done properly goign the quick way around costs alot more in the long run especially if something goes wrong and you crash or excessive tire wear not good

Go to a pro

[FROSTY:Me]

Dude you've had a bunch of answers from different people.
I'd suggest you have a look at the suspension experience level of all of them.
Heres my lil bit of feedback.
Very much like the racers advice of "go slower to go faster"
I'd suggest that you will actually find you in this case should "spend money to save money"

[CookMySock]

I'd suggest that you will actually find you in this case should "spend money to save money"

Yeah mate, I agree with you. But I think I'm a little like you, where I'd like to either do it myself and learn from the process even if it costs more, or at least have it explained to me, rather than hand over the cash and ride the product home. Am I right here ? So theres my problem. The head wins or the heart wins - which one do you follow ? Yup.

Thanks Frosty.

DB

[Katman]

The only problem I have, is if I bork the install badly, and thats looking more and more unlikely.

DB

You seem to be the only one on here who thinks so highly of yourself.

[FROSTY:Me]

Yeah mate, I agree with you. But I think I'm a little like you, where I'd like to either do it myself and learn from the process even if it costs more, or at least have it explained to me, rather than hand over the cash and ride the product home. Am I right here ? So theres my problem. The head wins or the heart wins - which one do you follow ? Yup.

Thanks Frosty.

DB

in a nutshell bro--
If yer thinking like me then FFS learn frm MY mistake,
a full season on a front end that whilst mechanically in really nice condition was set up so badly it was dangerous. Wrong springs foe my weight and internal damping up the shit.
Shaun got it to a level that was ridable by optimising what I had.
Chris Osborne (ozzy) stripped the forks down and BUILT a front end that actually works --No more sledging front end.
I'd put a HUGE chunk of money that robert or Chris would happily explain exacxtly what and why they do stuff to your forks

[CookMySock]

Ok FROSTY. I hear ya.


DB

[erik]

"Racetech kits are designed to be installed by home/hobbiest mechanics - comes with instruction DVD etc etc"

Anyone installed these themselves ?

I haven't.

From what's been posted, it seems the only person in this thread that has installed the Gold Valve kits is Robert Taylor.

Most other people have had him install the kits for them and are now recommending you do the same.

Robert Taylor has said:

But if you are prepared to have the correct tools, have experience of detailed intricate assembly and are diligent and FUSSY then yes you can do an acceptable job.

It's interesting that so few people have actually fitted the kits themselves. The only thread I've found about it on kiwibiker is the one by Pixie:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=52932

Maybe you'd be better off searching international forums for info?

If you do fit them yourself, it'd be interesting to see a report/photos of how it went.

[Pixie]

neve

I invite his, or anyones, constructive criticism. "Don't do it coz u will die" is not helpful. But mostly, I'd just like to hear from someone who has done it - someone on KB will have.. If the kit comes with DVDs, written instructions, graphs for setting it up and so on - how hard can it be ? Its not for race use, and it only has to be 4-5 times better than the standard hyo shock (shudder..)

DB

Don't do it,you'll die!!!
Or worse!
I did it and look at me ( see avatar )

If you won't listen to reason then see the post below (Forks will vary)

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...acetech&page=2

Or you could be a good,compliant 21st century man and pay someone to do it for you and never learn anything and believe that you are inadequate

Michelangelo had never painted anything in the 20 years since his apprentiship,when he took on the commission to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
When he needed advice,he asked.

RaceTech's settings were pretty good (I told them the details of the bike,my riding style and our excuse for roads in NZ)

[NordieBoy]

Ah bring back the early 80's when you just added heavier oil and a stack of coins on top of the springs to improve your front end.

If your bike was really fancy it may have had air caps on the top of the forks!

I've got air caps and a 15mm thick nut on top of the springs
New coins just arn't as good as the old coins.

[CookMySock]

From what's been posted, it seems the only person in this thread that has installed the Gold Valve kits is Robert Taylor.

Hi Erik. Yes I had hoped this procedure was a lot more common. Talking to a number of people, including suspension techs, it is clear the procedure is perfectly straight forward for them, so I doubt it is any more than a "head scratcher" for me. The hard part is the initial shim stack recipie and customising it for my bike without the use of the dyno, and further setup assistance. However, I don't need or care about a "ten orders of magnitude" improvement - a "two orders of magnitude" improvement will suffice.

I spoke to the friendly local suspension tech bloke, and he suggests to not even waste money on the racetech pistons.. "quite a lot can be done with the stock internals - mods etc." Total cost $250 all up. I am sorely tempted to take his offer up and just see how good it is. This is almost a quarter of the cost of the full racetech setup.

Robert Taylor has said:
It's interesting that so few people have actually fitted the kits themselves. The only thread I've found about it on kiwibiker is the one by Pixie:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=52932

I wonder why it is so "interesting". It seems that the job is non-trivial, but so is riding a sportbike, or bringing up kids. Thanks for drawing that link to my attention. I don't know how I missed that.

Maybe you'd be better off searching international forums for info? If you do fit them yourself, it'd be interesting to see a report/photos of how it went.

Yes I did some googling and came with some great documentation. It all suggests that the procedure is indeed something that can be carried out in a home workshop, and many if not most of the tools can be improvised, provided there are no pipe wrenches, adjustable spanners, and other garden implements used.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...acetech&page=2


Michelangelo had never painted anything in the 20 years since his apprentiship,when he took on the commission to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

Thank you Pixie. Thank you very much, actually. Will read and digest.

Steve

[tri boy]

Lets all put this back in perspective for a minute aye. (I know it's not the KB way, but let's try).
Many riders, across most disciplines of the sport, have fitted various brands of after market valving/springs/dampening units, and with pretty good results.
ie, there forks have worked, the front wheel hasn't fallen off,etc.
However, if you wish to get the best result from the kit, and have a superior job done, then it is common sense to use those that do this stuff day in day out, and tap into their historic records, charts, industry inside knowledge.

I hope those that do their own suspension mods enjoy the process, and get a kick out of a successful rebuild, but I doubt very much that the end result will match the quality of pro's like RT and other dedicated men.
(I'm sure everyone has lathes, specialist digital measuring equipment, and a huge database of settings to fall back to).