A question to IT KBers, part II

[hdus001]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly is the difference between CS & SE in terms of what sort of job a student of the discipline is trained for?

[jrandom]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly is the difference between CS & SE in terms of what sort of job a student of the discipline is trained for?

They're two different Auckland Uni majors. One's run by the science and math faculty, the other's run by the engineering faculty.

The BSc majoring in computer science is three years of papers about computer programming.

The BE majoring in software engineering is four years, including most of the same papers as above, but with a standard BE's first year of physics and math thrown in.

In reality, students will come out having learned the exact same things. The major difference is that getting into the BE programme is harder in terms of entry requirements. Couldn't have Hoodsie's old faculty lowering its standards, after all!

Auckland Uni's software engineering major was started in an effort to get more students enrolling and get non-technical management at big employers excited. The substantial difference is minimal - you just get to burn an extra year doing the same papers as all the other engineering majors instead of jumping straight into learning about computer programming.

And the lecturers are all still just lame-arse motherfuckers who have trouble getting real jobs.



Edit: I'm just shittin' you, one of me best mates and most useful colleagues spent a couple of years working there.

[Street Gerbil]

OK. Here's my 2c worth.

Remember that language that would be dead and buried by the 80's. COBOL.

Well it is still around. There are so many legacy systems out there that rely on said code that the chances of it disappearing is extremely small due to the cost involved to redevelop.

Now everyone wants to code in all of the sexy bleeding edge languages so no one is training in the older languages. The ones that do have the skill set are getting older. All of the COBOL coder's in the place I work are in their mid to late 40's or older.

It is therefore opening up a huge market for the 'younger' developers to command extreme sums of money. Just look at what the market was like for the Y2K projects. Legacy systems had to be maintained and COBOL developers were paid very well because of it.
With the increasing age of the people with that skill set, now is the time to strike. Throw in some CICS and the odd bit of DB2 and you can live very comfortably.

You know I'm right. - Would I lie to you!

The funny thing is, 80% of the code that I worked with in New Zealand were written in Microfocus NetExpress COBOL. Its lack of local variables sucks, but it has got a half decent IDE and even a functional (most of the time) integrated debugger.

[xwhatsit]

They're two different Auckland Uni majors. One's run by the science and math faculty, the other's run by the engineering faculty.

You're not too far off the ball there -- see, I thought I was getting CS CS, you know, in the American sense of the word. Instead I got computer programming.

Still, CS is a lot more general than SE. More into the underlying theory and how it all works -- SE is more `how to write fast tight code in C# .NET 2.0', whereas CS will give you a broad-level overview of how exactly JIT/JVM sort of environments work, and teach you all about object-orientation. The idea being that in 5 years time, when Micro-Soft releases D-flat 8.8 .NET, you can buy a textbook and pick up all the individual peculiarites of the language over the weekend and be ready to go, whereas the poor SE chap doesn't know his lips from his arsehole.

And we get to write cool things like compilers and useless microkernel OSs, while SE students write endless front-ends to SQL Server databases. J -- you're depressing me -- if I end up doing shit like that for a decade, I'll blow my brains out.

[jrandom]

... we get to write cool things like compilers and useless microkernel OSs

Best you get your fill of it now, then, cos after you graduate it'll be SQL Server front-ends putting food in your cupboard.

J -- you're depressing me -- if I end up doing shit like that for a decade, I'll blow my brains out.

Embedded and internets-infrastructure-product type projects are your best hope of salvation. Get a job writing industrial control software, or crystal oscillator test systems at Rakon (they use C#), or something like that.

Don't ever work for a telecom company, no matter how honeyed their words and attractive their salary package.

Likewise, avoid like the plague any company in the MIS software business (the likes of Peace and Orion spring to mind).

Optima are doing some sexy things. I'd get my CV to them ASAP. They're not good payers but that doesn't matter when you're a fresh grad.

Good luck. You'll be right. Maybe. Go for straight As, stay on and do a PhD, and then go work for Google, would be my advice.

[enigma51]

Something i found while looking for some BSD softare

http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/...as_gone_online

[avgas]

Haha so true.
I used to use only C, C++, C builder.........but i haven't been able to touch that for years. Last few project have been either online stuff (CS3, HTML) or bizzare stuff (H-Code, Digsi, protocol Bullshit).
I miss the good ol days

[scracha]

Don't ever work for a telecom company, no matter how honeyed their words and attractive their salary package.

Seconded. Don't ever work for an American company either. They're all arse licking "yes men" who can't call a spade a fuckin spade.

[xwhatsit]

Well I just went and saw Richard Stallman speak today (he's speaking tomorrow again at uni). The stirring of revolution is within me! I think I shall become...

A folk dancer...?

[jrandom]

Well I just went and saw Richard Stallman speak today (he's speaking tomorrow again at uni).

What did he talk about (I suppose that's a dumb question) and what time's his lecture today?

If I didn't have the kids staying this weekend and the Olympic road race on at 3pm I'd be tempted to wander along. Be nice to meet RMS in person.



I suppose this was inevitable shortly after that comic was published:

[xwhatsit]

Er, I slept in, so a bit late for his lecture today.

Yesterday was on DRM and all of that stuff he finds so upsetting. Today was about free software.

My friend -- an arts student -- regularly reads XKCD, and drew some other cartoon (some amalgamation of your one and `Stand back -- I know Linux' (which I made him change to GNU/Linux for his own sake)), but after seeing how fearsome and angry a man RMS is he didn't hold it up or get him to sign it

[disenfranchised]

Don't ever work for a telecom company, no matter how honeyed their words and attractive their salary package.

Do you mean a telecommunications company...or a department/partner of Telecom itself?

If the former....why not?
I work at one...we use .NET to build all our own applications, and handle all the B2B communication.

Deep in the depths of the network they'll still be using C++, Perl etc...

Plus all the languages to control calls and the like...SIP etc...


So there's pretty much the opportunity to use anything and everything.

[jrandom]

Do you mean a telecommunications company...

Yes.

Because the particular corporate flavour of a telecommunications company is anathema to a certain type of person.

One assumes you are not that type of person.

Which is good, because someone's gotta do it.