Uni talk - Restricted Entry 2009

[motorbyclist]

Restricted entry; what do you guys think?

Basically as of next year to get into ANY bachelor/degree programme you have to meet pre-requisites, which may force you to go back to school or do a 6 month course before being allowed into your desired course.


AUSA seems to oppose it as it makes things 'unfair'... a good example would be smaller schools not being able to offer alot of subjects, thus preventing some from getting into their preferred course. then there's those who don't decide until half way through 7th form what to do. I fell into both those categories come the end of 2006, barely scraped into engineering due to a lackluster maths performance, was required to do a 4 week maths course, and then proceeded to do surprisingly well.

The University wants it due to new funding system meaning they only have x amount of money to go round and don't want to stretch it too far over too many students.

Many courses already have restricted entry anyway.

It is meant to make the degrees better/more worthwhile as you aren't going to waste the first 6-12 months learning stuff you've already learnt - or should have learnt - in high school, thus giving an extra semester or two to learn more, or possibly shorten the course. again i fall into the frustrated "already learnt this shit last year" camp cause i was smart enough to keep my options open and do all the sciences/maths stuff at high school, but if i decided to do commerce, law, any languages, fine arts, history etc next year i would be stuffed.

Basically more money and better degree for those that get in, tough luck if you cant.

Whaddaya reckon??

[bomma]

sounds like the govt is sticking another vibrator in the already congested orifice of the student population.....a restriction to enter into a BA?!?! How hard is it to learn to say "Would you like fries with that"?!?! just another scam to get more money out of the students.....

[rachprice]

Nah I reckon they should...there are so many people that fail every paper and waste money doing something they shouldn't be doing, the just want the lifestyle (guess dunedin might have more people like that than auckland)
Bursary was piss easy to get 3 c's and I dont really know much about NCEA but it appears to be piss easy as well, credits from stuff that is not academic at all (which is fine but when going to uni, not so much so)

[N1CK]

Nah I reckon they should...there are so many people that fail every paper and waste money doing something they shouldn't be doing, the just want the lifestyle (guess dunedin might have more people like that than auckland)
Bursary was piss easy to get 3 c's and I dont really know much about NCEA but it appears to be piss easy as well, credits from stuff that is not academic at all (which is fine but when going to uni, not so much so)

Hey, I go to college not uni. What non academic stuff do you get credits for??

[tommorth]

i rekon its a good plan if you really want to do somthing you will make the effort to do the pre req

[PirateJafa]

Hey, I go to college not uni. What non academic stuff do you get credits for??

You can get credits for doing a "learn to sail" course ffs.

[rachprice]

Hey, I go to college not uni. What non academic stuff do you get credits for??

As I said don't really know much about it (I was the last to go through bursary), just want people have told me

[dino3310]

i have to go back to school and get minimum level2 in maths and physics before i can start a civil engerneering diploma, i thought that sucked till i saw some of the shit i would have to do for the civil diploma, with out learning the maths and physics i wouldn't get very far on the diploma.

[Real_Wolf]

I dunno, its a plan with its benefits and its problems.

Depending on how they implement it.

For example, if they say "You must have these courses at this level to get in" and don't budge, thats just plain stupid, especially for the people who didn't take like maths or something in 7th form (year 13).

But, if they say "You must have this sort of a grade to get in", and make 'judgements' that are fair for people who haven't taken that course, but who obviously CAN learn, then thats fine. It will weed out all the people unable to learn, and those that are a bit behind can easily catch up doing a tiny bit more work. It won't cut out the 'did this last year' stuff, but it will bring it down from like half a semester to maybe a week.

Of course the problem with the above is that NCEA is so retarded (I went through it), that you can't really judge just how well someone learns from what they get. For example, Geography has this one paper, where like 30% got Excellence, 50% got Merit, and the rest was split between not achieved and achieved. Merit is meant to be like B+, and Excellence is the top mark you can get really, so A-> A+, and its like that throughout with stupid things.

They COULD make you take a short simple test, thats not like a knowledge test, but like a test of something relevant, like a small bit of math, with maybe a thing on 'how to do it', then you have to understand and do it, to show that you can learn it. For example getting into a math course, they have a small bit of info on how to differentiate, and then they ask you to differentiate something. If you can do that with the info (some could do it without, some wouldn't understand), then you can egt into the course. Of course thered be more than that, but thats an example.

[Phurrball]

An interesting idea to restrict entry - but for the wrong reasons.

Auckland is like many NZ tertiary institutions in that it has seen an explosion in student numbers - Why? The EFTS funding system is to blame.

Thank you last National government for promoting a 'bums on seats' funding regime...

(Why was it that Te Wananga O Aotearoa beacme so huge so fast? [Not suggesting there is no merit there, but rather that EFTS allows this kind of massive growth] Why do we see so many ads for tertiary education providers? I could go on.)

The trouble is to do it without disadvantaging any groups - which is AUSA's point I believe.

A change to restricted entry is a move to stem the result of the flawed EFTS funding regime - but it's not the right way to go about it IMHO. As Andrew alludes, there are many talented people that don't do too well in a school setting - how long should we hold someone's poor grades at high school against them?

I've not looked to closely at the proposed entry restrictions - but University should not be elitist. Education is a societal as well as an individual benefit. There needs to be a deeper look at the culture that has led to the present 'need' for a bachelor's degree to do anything, and the resources wasted on competition between equally good universities.

Lets not forget the politics driving this policy here - There seem to be similar tensions between VC McCutcheon and AU staff as there were between VC Fogelberg at OU when I was studying there (Staff strikes etc). The VC has been pushing this as far as I can make out, and as per there has not been sufficient consultation with stakeholder groups.

As for lifestyle studying - that is short lived, as if you fail too much, then no more allowance or student loan! (I can't think why anyone whould choose the artificial reality of tertiary study and being the only sector of society forced to borrow to live unless they actually wanted an education)

That's a my half-informed rant on it. Haven't had time to look into it too much - but I will stick in the boot though and say there are better NZ universities than AU.

NOT academically, it's up there with the best - but in terms of pastoral care of students and lifestyle, OU beats it hands down. I ought to know, as I've had a rocky road at both, and OU is much more supportive - AU just takes your money... (Though Law School here is excellent - shame about overall AU admin)

Ross

[Ragingrob]

Uni should be restricted more than it is to reduce the number of numbnuts who are just wasting time and money, it should then be made free again so that the smarties of the country don't have to start their careers with massive debts.

The reduction of course fees is much more ideal than the proposed student allowance to all students by the govt. for these elections.

Honestly wtf, we pay what, between $400 and $800 for each papers, AND THEN they fucken tell us we need to buy the $140 textbook plus $15 course book, oh and print off any course slides... It's such bullshit.

Edit : Oh and 4 papers at Uni is a supposed 40 hour week (recommended by the Uni, not as if anyone spends that much time), many students take 5 papers some semesters for their conjoint degrees, so that's a 50 hour supposed week, and we're meant to get a job and earn money to pay for our course fees, books, rent, bills, food, beer, motorbikes how?!

Why the hell does the government think that putting students tens of thousands of dollars in debt is a good idea?

[motorbyclist]

Hey, I go to college not uni. What non academic stuff do you get credits for??

getting a drivers licence, physical education etc - although to be fair the stuff i saw for Phys ed wasn't exactly a walk in the park, more a gruelling run for 5km

Honestly wtf, we pay what, between $400 and $800 for each papers, AND THEN they fucken tell us we need to buy the $140 textbook plus $15 course book, oh and print off any course slides... It's such bullshit.

+1!

(but i suppose you get the option as to buying new/2nd hand this way)

[Ragingrob]

getting a drivers licence, physical education etc - although to be fair the stuff i saw for Phys ed wasn't exactly a walk in the park, more a gruelling run for 5km

How about the school (dunno which one) that gave out credits for picking up litter... Good stuff there!

+1!

(but i suppose you get the option as to buying new/2nd hand this way)

I reckon Uni should work the same as school, hand out all the books, and then make people pay if they aren't returned or in shit condition, then UBS wouldn't even have to buy brand new books year after year either unless the edition changes.

But no, I guess everything is to do with profit making and screwing up younger generations these days.

[klyong82]

Interesting... well there is alway AUT University to consider and with the campus in the process been renovated down in Manakau pretty suce its gonna welcome with open hands of the students that are rejected by AU.

[MGST]

As Andrew alludes, there are many talented people that don't do too well in a school setting - how long should we hold someone's poor grades at high school against them?

Ross

University is the next school after college, right? so if people don't do too well in a school ( college ) setting, what makes you think they will magically come right 3 months later at University?

I can see both sides of the picture, but in order to keep it simple and easy to understand, and most importantly NOT be accused of leniency towards some people, there needs to be a hard and fast " get these makes and your in, otherwise your on your bike". THen no one can say they didn't realise this, no one told them that, etc

Better still, GO GET A TRADE