Discussion on Mentor Programme

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

tips how to get out of a situation or how to avoid it in the first place...

Forget lines and gearshifts and peg-weighting and all of those technical sort of things; attitude and a general philosophy of not getting into strife in the first place should be far more important.

Sounds fimilar... oh and presicely

[Katman]

And for the record, I am not against the mentor scheme.

When PB started riding the only thing I felt I needed to teach her was to look through the corner to where she wanted her bike to go.

(But then again, I knew she secretly had the 'Katman attitude' already.)

[MyGSXF:Me]

I personally don't believe in absolutes - which is why I am very much opposed to anyone considering binning inevitable.

Absolutely hon! I go out on every ride knowing there is always going to be the possibility that I may end up broken.. or even, not come home. All I can do is.. keep upskilling myself regularly.. raise my awareness through learning & not ride like a ferkin maniac.. to increase my chances of coming home to my beautiful boys

Now Jen, you strike me as being very un-aggressive - a friendly sort who's very conscious about your riding and about how to improve it and be safe. (correct me if I'm completely derailed here - I've only met you at the RRRS course)

Thank you.. & it's "Roadsafe" hon!!

Still, if you managed to have an incident - no matter how minor - where would that place the odds of your average, young, testosterone fuelled, newbie biker?

Exactly! I am horrified everytime I read a "I've binned" thread on here.. & even more so when I read that it's their 3rd one in 2 months

Inexperienced riders on new, fast, powerful bikes (many of the new 250's would whip the arse off my toy!! ) & the bulletproof attitude that (typically) young testosterone fulled males have.. scares the beejeebus outta me. (Plus there's also the other ones.. no licence.. BIG bikes.. who think the road is a race track.. just as dangerous!!)

As has been touched upon already - those who seek guidance/mentoring/instruction/teaching/WTF ever are not necessarily the ones that need it the most.

Unfortunately not.. All we can do is put some time & effort into those who DO come forwards!

Quite the contrary. Anything that can be done to make such opportunities more visible and more accessible are welcome in my book.

Totally!! As you know, I am a HUUUUUGE advocate for rider training (which is why I organised the ChCh course for you guys) After doing several of Roadsafe's courses, I tell anyone & everyone I come across about the skills & tips I learned & how they have changed my riding!! & have pointed many people in Roadsafe's direction as well! To be honest, I reckon rider training courses should be mandatory.. say, every 5 years!! To refresh & up skill!!

As for the mentoring programme.. a HUGE up's to everyone who has put a lot of hard work into setting it all up!!

[Nasty]

This thread is for discussion about the mentor programme. Is it not for personal attacks, or stupid remarks. Please take the time to remember that the mentor programme is commencing and if you have feedback it will be greatly appreciated.

[FROSTY:Me]

Everybody loves to get the shits with Katman, and laugh off Ixion as a cynical crackpot. But, from my perspective, they bring up a very valid point. Forget lines and gearshifts and peg-weighting and all of those technical sort of things; attitude and a general philosophy of not getting into strife in the first place should be far more important. towards motorcycling, not how to corner well and use the brakes to stop quickly -- that will follow on. You can read books on that.

From My POV--it is about learning "stuff" in the right order Definitely.
Building ride skills in the right order as they say is like building on bedrock --In the wrong order like building on quicksand.
I disagree with you in that lines,braking points,gearshifts etc are part of the learning curve, They are literally lifesaving stuff.
Attitude is definitely important but eventually knowing what to do in a situation WILL keep you alive.-and Im not talking racer stuff either

[James Deuce]

Right then. Let's see if I can get people wound up enough to get banned altogether.

1. Xerxesdaphat, JSG, Devil, SPB, et al have all either raised valid points, or cut to the core of what this programme is about. I rather think most people are on the training tangent at the moment.

2. A number of the nominated Mentors are dangerous to ride with or believe that mysticism is the best way to proceed down the motorcycling path. I prefer Gnosticism myself. I agree with SPB entirely. Bear in mind that some people have been party to discussions prior to launching this programme, and my attitude toward who could be regarded as a mentor was different to most of that group's, hence why I'm not involved.

3. It's not a popularity contest, but looking at how this is proceeding it has turned into one, with a few people in the background doing either some active politicing or some active moderation to make sure that the followers of the "Katman/Ixion attitude" camps are excluded or punished for speaking their minds or daring to try and defuse argumentative behaviour between the various camps. I'm still expecting my own personal Tardis out of all this.

4. I personally like the idea of gently nudging certain people to ride with certain other people. Staying alive is an attitude, not a skillset. We haven't had any "decent" deaths or near-fatal accidents to remind people of their mortality recently. I think that's because most of you pussies stop riding when it's a little bit damp or cold, leaving those with an attitude and skillset valid for sharing the road with other road users to enjoy themselves. Come Summer and we'll be back to listening to stories of self-wrought carnage.

5. The reason this has been formalised a little is to stop the attitudinally incompatible from spreading disinformation and pushing newbies into practicing skills instead of attitude and just going for a ride and having a good time. Plus despite everyone's ostrich like attitude the implied ownership and legal implications for KB's domain holder if it all goes wrong mean that he will be held responsible if someone decides to push charges against a "training" organisation that gave bad advice. That could be your Mum.

6. Mentoring can be for anything. If you want to race, someone who has previously blazed a trail can help make your introduction to racing easier. You might want a riding buddy who can help with a personal issue that needs talking over. You may want to learn the arcane arts of Stunting from someone who has experienced the pain and expense of learning it for themselves. This isn't about Sam Browne belts and Day-Glo vests. You may even want someone who can give you a few hints on how to commute swiftly with minimal risk. Up to you.

7. Most of all it's a way for a diverse group of people to impart their experience without lecturing (unless you specifically ask for a lecture). Mentoring goes both ways too. Maybe some of you Crusties/Racist or Sexist Bastards/Nanas can learn something from people you normally look down your nose at.

Don't forget though, above all, it's 99% how you look.

[nodrog:Me]

so one of the reasons this new setup was "formalised" was to stop any legal implication to the site?

[James Deuce]

so one of the reasons this new setup was "formalised" was to stop any legal implication to the site?

Just to prevent it being misread as sanctioned training and make sure it was understood to be about finding people like-minded riding buddies.

[nodrog:Me]

Just to prevent it being misread as sanctioned training and make sure it was understood to be about finding people like-minded riding buddies.

but isnt it basically sanctioned training due to the select vetting process of selecting the mentors?

[James Deuce]

Nope, no training is happening, and if it starts I'm sure the Senior Mentors will redefine roles or relationships between the Mentor and the Mentored. The "sanctioning" process is about saying here's some people with a decent attitude to riding you may enjoy riding with. This Mentor enjoys this sort of riding, like you, so you may find it advantageous to hang with this person.

Attitude by osmosis, not skill set by ruthless training scheme.

[Katman]

I also find it somewhat disturbing that of the nominated mentors only one has come forward in this thread to say that addressing the issue of 'attitude towards motorcycling' will be an integral part of her method.

MyGSXF has my support at least.

(For what it's worth.)

[jrandom]

Personally, I suspect that this scheme is primarily driven by people with a desire, conscious or otherwise, for social status. I get a creepy feeling about the whole thing.

I don't see the need for any formalised 'mentoring' scheme.

There are people on this forum that I regard as friends whom I would never consider suitable as 'mentors', either because they can't ride a motorbicycle for shit (regardless of experience) or because they turn into complete twats whenever they're given a sniff of authority or influence over someone.

But I still regard them as friends and have my own relationship with them, defined on the basis of what I do like about them.

And that's the kind of ambiguity that can cause all sorts of hassles when it's crowded out of the way by new riders being shoved in the direction of appointed 'mentors'.

You know what they say; anyone who wants to be a politician shouldn't be one. The same conundrum applies here.

At heart, I guess I'm a bit of an anarchist. The gleeful establishment of formalised seniority structures in a social group troubles me, as does the apparent squashing of criticism of it in this thread.

[enigma51]

Don't forget though, above all, it's 99% how you look.

Or your post on KB











I undestand the concept of what is being achieved. What i dont get is the people being nominated (not all of them just some). It clearly has lent it self to a popularity contest.

Then there is the issue of crashes lost of licenese etc. Everyone is allowed to be bad but dont be Mr goodie two shoes and try and be a mentor. Its like the saying do as you told and not what i do

If you been a good boy or girl and feel you can teach people something make yourself available for the program.

For those that wanna learn if you have question why not just ask. I know of a few people on here that have gone from noob to skilled rider by simply just asking. Yes you going to get a bit of lip ever so often but get over it use you brain to figure out dum suggestions to valuable suggestion

[Trudes]

Personally, I suspect that this scheme is primarily driven by people with a desire, conscious or otherwise, for social status. I get a creepy feeling about the whole thing.

I don't see the need for any formalised 'mentoring' scheme.

There are people on this forum that I regard as friends whom I would never consider suitable as 'mentors', either because they can't ride a motorbicycle for shit (regardless of experience) or because they turn into complete twats whenever they're given a sniff of authority or influence over someone.

But I still regard them as friends and have my own relationship with them, defined on the basis of what I do like about them.

And that's the kind of ambiguity that can cause all sorts of hassles when it's crowded out of the way by new riders being shoved in the direction of appointed 'mentors'.

You know what they say; anyone who wants to be a politician shouldn't be one. The same conundrum applies here.

At heart, I guess I'm a bit of an anarchist. The gleeful establishment of formalised seniority structures in a social group troubles me, as does the apparent squashing of criticism of it in this thread.

I agree totally with you here jrandom...
And just because someone is your friend doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they do or so all of the time eh.
Although I do think the mentor thing has some value for new riders who need some help from someone who's "been there and done that many times".

[Trudes]

Sometimes you don't actually realise you're doing something "wrong" to be able to ask the questions. Or you don't realise there's an easier or safer way to do something until someone points it out to you.