Discussion on Mentor Programme

[jrandom]

Sometimes you don't actually realise you're doing something "wrong" to be able to ask the questions. Or you don't realise there's an easier or safer way to do something until someone points it out to you.

To be perfectly fair, of course, this is mostly something that afflicts girls.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

A I go out on every ride knowing there is always going to be the possibility that I may end up broken.. or even, not come home. All I can do is.. keep upskilling myself regularly.. raise my awareness through learning & not ride like a ferkin maniac.. to increase my chances of coming home

...

Exactly! I am horrified everytime I read a "I've binned" thread on here.. & even more so when I read that it's their 3rd one in 2 months

Inexperienced riders on new, fast, powerful bikes (many of the new 250's would whip the arse off my toy!! ) & the bulletproof attitude that (typically) young testosterone fulled males have.. scares the beejeebus outta me. (Plus there's also the other ones.. no licence.. BIG bikes.. who think the road is a race track.. just as dangerous!!)

...

Totally!! As you know, I am a HUUUUUGE advocate for rider training

what she said...

[justsomeguy]

Over all the mentoring program is a good thing. KB is no longer 3000 member strong with around 100 active members and ride regulars who know each other on a first name basis.

A structure is needed to bring some sense into the process with the current membership size.

Unfortunately, the people involved in setting up this scheme are "people" i.e. no one's perfect.

KB is not a grand scheme to take over the world, it's just a website, you don't HAVE to listen to the mentoring program's proponents. You still have full control of your decision making process.


If you don't like the mentor, then tell the mentoree that and let them decide for themselves. However don't slag off people who are willing to give their time to others.

Popularity contest? What's the problem with someone wanting to be popular for helping others?

It only seems like a popularity contest as rather vocal opponents come crashing down pointing all the faults out and offering no solutions. Since they shout the loudest and no one here likes to listen to the other all such things on KB seem like a bit of a circus.

For a lot of people who talk bad, I'd like to say offer a better alternative or SHUT IT.

[Ixion]

Mentoring goes both ways too. Maybe some of you Crusties/Racist or Sexist Bastards/Nanas can learn something from people you normally look down your nose at.

A valid point. It is one reason why I like to go along on those 250 learner rides. One sees a novice and says to oneself "oh, he's doing xxx, that's not wise. Oh, hang on, I'm doing it too. Mental note to correct bad habit".

Unwise habits creep in slowly over the years.

And I think it necessary to distinguish between "mentoring 101 for novice riders", and mentoring of (declaredly) budding racers, motocrossers etc. The latter presumably having already some measure of experience. And not having to deal with Mabel and Harry Huriup.

I am not so sure that great experience is a good thing in a mentor either. Obviously, the mentor should not be a novice himself, or the blind lead the blind.

But if one's own noobie experiences are many many years ago, it is hard , perhaps impossible, to remember what it was like. Over the years , things become almost instinctive, one does them without thinking or even being aware one is, and it is hard to remember that it may not be so for a beginner. Or to remember that riding may actually be a scarey experience for a beginner, not just at the "oh shit" moments, but the whole time. And the experienced rider may often do that which , for him, is safe enough. He knows when it is safe and when not. But the novice who thinks to emulate the behaviour, without the refinement of spidey sense to ring the alarm bell when necessary, will come to grief.

The best is probably a rider of some few years experience, enough to have gone through the stages of knowing nothing, learning, knowing everything and have come out the far end knowing that he knows not enough. But still close enough to his (or her) own noobie years to actually remember what it was like, and what he/she found difficult or confusing or scarey.

[justsomeguy]

I also find it somewhat disturbing that of the nominated mentors only one has come forward in this thread to say that addressing the issue of 'attitude towards motorcycling' will be an integral part of her method.

MyGSXF has my support at least.

(For what it's worth.)

Do you know the rest of the mentors personally? As real people in the real world?

Except one person who I've let the mods know who, everyone else who I know personally that has been nominated as a mentor has a really great attitude. In personal discussions over time they have always explained things keeping attitude at the centre of their advice.

MDU and Ixion for example would make superb mentors, not sure if they are or want to be in this program; regardless of which I would still recommend them because of who they are, purely because I know them and of them through the years.

I hope you too are judging the other mentors with similar criteria.

[Katman]

I hope you too are judging the other mods with similar criteria.

To be honest, no I'm not. Simply because, as I've repeatedly mentioned, I believe getting a new riders head 'right' is more important than teaching 'skills'.

MyGSXF (and to a lesser degree Frosty) is the only one so far that has publicly stated that she also believes it to be important.

[justsomeguy]

To be honest, no I'm not. Simply because, as I've repeatedly mentioned, I believe getting a new riders head 'right' is more important than teaching 'skills'.

MyGSXF (and to a lesser degree Frosty) is the only one so far that has publicly stated that she also believes it to be important.

Oops I meant mentors not mods.

I understand, don't know MyGSXF but Frosty's a good guy. Bit of a grown up kid, but once you get past that he has a lot to offer.

There's too much political crap in any large organisation(corporate or social) so one has to take the good with the bad.

[Jantar]

...MDU and Ixion for example would make superb mentors, not sure if they are or want to be in this program; regardless of which I would still recommend them because of who they are, purely because I know them and of them through the years. ....

I agree. The nominations so far are just that - NOMINATIONS. In order for a nomination to be accepted they must meet a basic set of criteria, and have suitable references, then they are notified on here for feedback.

If anyone feels that a particular person would make a good mentor, then simply ask them if they have the experience, the attitude, and the inclination. find two referrees, and pass the nomonation on to the senior Mentor for your area.

Rather than simply saying MDU and Ixion would make good mentors, follow the guidelines and nominate them.

[FROSTY:Me]

keep in mind --a lot of the nominees just wanna get stuck into what really matters--and it aint talkin on here--its doin what they can to help fellow KBers --me Im at work with owt to do atm

[The Stranger:Me]

Here's a young beginning rider sticking his neck out in expectation of it being hacked off --

Everybody loves to get the shits with Katman, and laugh off Ixion as a cynical crackpot. But, from my perspective, they bring up a very valid point. Forget lines and gearshifts and peg-weighting and all of those technical sort of things; attitude and a general philosophy of not getting into strife in the first place should be far more important. The aforementioned person with his `mentor' who taught him how to corner yet had lost his license multiple times etc. should be right off the books. IMHO, beginning riders should be kept away from the toothpaste-tube GSXR brigrade as long as possible. I say this as somebody who was lucky to fall in with the `right crowd' right from day one, and as a result that's certainly had an effect on my frequency of hospital visits.

Once I finish building my sister's bike, I want her to be mentored by somebody who will show her the correct (using this word again) attitude towards motorcycling, not how to corner well and use the brakes to stop quickly -- that will follow on. You can read books on that.

MHO. I may have got the wrong end of the stick here, but it really worries and saddens me when I see a lot of the guys in the SMC and the way they approach motorcycling.

Pleased you are here to regale us. Another unfortunate soul who chose to apply the rear brake and not the front in an emergency situation (not speeding or otherwise being a dick as far as the SCU could tell) died under a truck.

They were able to calculate he could have stopped in half the distance between him and the truck had he used the front brake instead.
Would a better attitude have helped, well we will never know. Would using the front brake instead have helped - oh yes.

No one is arguing about attitude.
I quite agree and have never disagreed with katman or anyone else that attitude is important should you wish to stay well. I have invited Katman to put forth his plans so that we may learn and adopt his ideas - yet they are not forthcoming.
As previously pointed out the difference with things like the wrb rides, BADD and this mentor scheme etc is that people have set out goals, shared them and are trying to achieve them, hence others will join them in their quest. In essence, they lead from the front. Katman knocks from without and pushes from the back. He has no plan, he has no idea how he would achieve his goals, he is not prepared to put in an effort - beyond his keyboard.
He pours scorn on those actually trying to effect change for the better.

This is why he attracts the derision he so richly deserves.
Not for his message.

A dream, without a plan and without effort is just a day dream - that's all he ever has.

[mstriumph]

........... Staying alive is an attitude, not a skillset..........

love you, fella!! spot on!!

[mstriumph]

.........KB is not a grand scheme to take over the world, ..............

damn, why not? we'd do a MUCH better job ..............

[Mental Trousers]

5. The reason this has been formalised a little is to stop the attitudinally incompatible from spreading disinformation and pushing newbies into practicing skills instead of attitude and just going for a ride and having a good time. Plus despite everyone's ostrich like attitude the implied ownership and legal implications for KB's domain holder if it all goes wrong mean that he will be held responsible if someone decides to push charges against a "training" organisation that gave bad advice. That could be your Mum.

Legally this site is in the clear the way the programme is structured. If something bad happens and someones mum wants someone to blame it won't (legally) be this site.

No training, promises or payment = no liability at all

[FROSTY:Me]

Staying alive is an attitude, not a skillset.

Mate sorry I gotta disagree with ya here --but only in that the two are NOT mutually exclusive.
Atitude and decent skillsets combined can keep ya alive
Ya might be riding totally defensively but theres times you need to KNOW certain aspects of bike riding.

[MSTRS:Me]

I also find it somewhat disturbing that of the nominated mentors only one has come forward in this thread to say that addressing the issue of 'attitude towards motorcycling' will be an integral part of her method.

I also pointed out that it wasn't 'written out' of what is expected of mentors. I personally expect that the mentors will find a way of imparting good attitude and advice, along with practical riding sessions with any person that asks for help. Not every pairing will be sucessful, because a certain amount of what takes place will depend on the raport (sp) between the individuals. With plenty of choice available to the mentoree, they will find the help that works for them.
Incidently, as nominator of some of the mentors, I refrain from 'voting' for any of them. I've helped put them in front of the members - for the member's approval.