Track Days at Taupo: 10th Feb and 14th April

**Motoracer** · 19th January 2005, 15:52

Originally Posted by Lynda Blair

Note: no boyfriends, husbands or partners are allowed on the track or in the park while training is going on

Cool, it doesn't say anywhere that I can't go for a watch and a chatup. I am not their boyfriend/husband/partner

**James Deuce** · 19th January 2005, 15:54

Originally Posted by Celtic_Sea_lily

I don't care that the boys clubs have been shut down, I don't care that men have to now contend with women only events cos women have had to put up with that shit for years - grumpy short version (a bit like me really).

I don't have a personally don't have a problem with men only or women only events. Men and women are different and have different strengths.

Equity and equality are different.

Sometimes a certain group has to be treated differently to get the same outcome. I know you don't agree with this statement either but, it's what I believe.

I don't get it. I never will. I have a natural abhorrence for the artificial application of intellectual theory at the expense of natural justice, freedom, and reason. It is no different to describing polynesians as savages so they can be dehumanised and their concepts and philosphy of life belittled so Imperialists can impose their concept of ownership. It is a very lax mental attitude that reflects years of social programming, not individual thought or free will.

It is Stalinist socialism in practice.

**Ms Piggy** · 19th January 2005, 16:15

Originally Posted by Jim2

I don't get it. I never will. I have a natural abhorrence for the artificial application of intellectual theory at the expense of natural justice, freedom, and reason. It is no different to describing polynesians as savages so they can be dehumanised and their concepts and philosphy of life belittled so Imperialists can impose their concept of ownership. It is a very lax mental attitude that reflects years of social programming, not individual thought or free will.

It is Stalinist socialism in practice.

what aboput the 'natural justice, freedom, and reason' that for years said a womans place was in the home or that Maori were savages etc, etc. You can't deny the facts and the history and just tell people who have been belittled for years to "get over it" and then get the pip when they are singled out as a way of bringing about equity.

Thats where I'm coming from.

Sorry guys & gals this is very

Hey Jim2 maybe we can discuss this elsewhere

**James Deuce** · 19th January 2005, 16:24

Originally Posted by Celtic_Sea_lily

what aboput the 'natural justice, freedom, and reason' that for years said a womans place was in the home or that Maori were savages etc, etc. You can't deny the facts and the history and just tell people who have been belittled for years to "get over it" and then get the pip when they are singled out as a way of bringing about equity.

Thats where I'm coming from.

Sorry guys & gals this is very

Hey Jim2 maybe we can discuss this elsewhere

Within a very short scope of recent history within our culture that is true. The facts as you mention them are that up until 250 years ago 99.9999995% of men in Western Europe and North America couldn't vote or own property either.

So you'd rather see the pendulum swing completely the other way than try to contribute to developing a society that acknowledges its past mistakes and endeavours to avoid them in future?

That's nothing but petty vengeance. I thought tit for tat was something we were supposed to be leaving behind, or has the ethnic vengeance/reparation industry migrated to the modern feminist argument?

**MSTRS:Me** · 19th January 2005, 16:42

Originally Posted by Jim2

Within a very short scope of recent history within our culture that is true. The facts as you mention them are that up until 250 years ago 99.9999995% of men in Western Europe and North America couldn't vote or own property either.

So you'd rather see the pendulum swing completely the other way than try to contribute to developing a society that acknowledges its past mistakes and endeavours to avoid them in future?

That's nothing but petty vengeance. I thought tit for tat was something we were supposed to be leaving behind, or has the ethnic vengeance/reparation industry migrated to the modern feminist argument?

You go girl !!!.......er, ummmm

**Ms Piggy** · 19th January 2005, 16:47

Originally Posted by Jim2

Within a very short scope of recent history within our culture that is true. The facts as you mention them are that up until 250 years ago 99.9999995% of men in Western Europe and North America couldn't vote or own property either.

So you'd rather see the pendulum swing completely the other way than try to contribute to developing a society that acknowledges its past mistakes and endeavours to avoid them in future?

That's nothing but petty vengeance. I thought tit for tat was something we were supposed to be leaving behind, or has the ethnic vengeance/reparation industry migrated to the modern feminist argument?

Keep my tits out of it!

My whole view is that I don't believe society does acknowledge their mistakes fully or endeavour to avoid them. Very general statement I know but, overall I think society is still riddled with racisim and sexism that just boils under the surface instead of being quite so open.

I understand what you are saying Jim but, I don't agree with you.

**James Deuce** · 19th January 2005, 16:51

Originally Posted by Celtic_Sea_lily

Keep my tits out of it!

My whole view is that I don't believe society does acknowledge their mistakes fully or endeavour to avoid them.

So the direct result is we perpetuate the same old mistakes instead of educating. Except with a different bias. And that's my point. WE'RE ARGUING THE SAME GODDAM THING.

It was your tats I was dragging into the argument.

**StoneChucker** · 19th January 2005, 18:39

Since it wasn't YOU that was discriminated against 20, 50 or 200 years ago, why must I be discriminated against now? Do you think having an opposite bias for 20, 50 or 200 years is going to balance it all out, and after that we can make everything equal? I suspect that after that time, men would be as pissed off as women are now, and swing it back to the opposite end of the spectrum for another indefinite period of time. Do you see a pattern here?

Why is it so ludicrous to suggest that the people of today (who largely have experienced NO discrimination, and often are experiencing preferential treatment) just let the past be just that, and start trying to make the human race, for once, equal? Now, I don't mean forget about the past, as that would make the future generation susceptible to making the same mistakes!

Or, is it that living as equals would take the benefit away from certain groups who are now experiencing the majority of life's benefits?

*EDIT* Btw, I luv ya Cathy, life would be boring if everyone agreed

Just in case you didn't know

**Ms Piggy** · 19th January 2005, 22:34

Originally Posted by StoneChucker

Since it wasn't YOU that was discriminated against 20, 50 or 200 years ago, why must I be discriminated against now? Do you think having an opposite bias for 20, 50 or 200 years is going to balance it all out, and after that we can make everything equal? I suspect that after that time, men would be as pissed off as women are now, and swing it back to the opposite end of the spectrum for another indefinite period of time. Do you see a pattern here?

Why is it so ludicrous to suggest that the people of today (who largely have experienced NO discrimination, and often are experiencing preferential treatment) just let the past be just that, and start trying to make the human race, for once, equal? Now, I don't mean forget about the past, as that would make the future generation susceptible to making the same mistakes!

Or, is it that living as equals would take the benefit away from certain groups who are now experiencing the majority of life's benefits?

*EDIT* Btw, I luv ya Cathy, life would be boring if everyone agreed

Just in case you didn't know

My dearest Stoney - my whole argument is based on my belief that women still are not treated with equity. I don't argue for equality b/c men & women are different and therefore cannot have equality but, equity. Equity sometimes means that a miniroty group needed to be treated differently. In this case women that ride motorcycles and may otherwise feel intimidated or just plain silly. Me for one.

I dunno how to explain it further except to say that I have been discriminated against cos of my gender, as have other womne - read the posts within that thread you started luvvy.

**Ms Piggy** · 19th January 2005, 22:36

Originally Posted by Jim2

So the direct result is we perpetuate the same old mistakes instead of educating. Except with a different bias. And that's my point. WE'RE ARGUING THE SAME GODDAM THING.

It was your tats I was dragging into the argument.

But how can you educate people who don't wanna know? Like with the Treaty (oh no here we go!) people don't wanna know the facts - they just want to bandy about opinion.

Nothing wrong with my tats thankyou!

**StoneChucker** · 20th January 2005, 07:41

Originally Posted by Celtic_Sea_lily

My dearest Stoney - my whole argument is based on my belief that women still are not treated with equity. I don't argue for equality b/c men & women are different and therefore cannot have equality but, equity. Equity sometimes means that a miniroty group needed to be treated differently. In this case women that ride motorcycles and may otherwise feel intimidated or just plain silly. Me for one.

I dunno how to explain it further except to say that I have been discriminated against cos of my gender, as have other womne - read the posts within that thread you started luvvy.

I can definitely see your point regarding equity. I just think in 200 years, white males will be the ones fighting for equity...

I guess I was making my arguements as if we were living in a perfect world. That is quite obviously not the case.
I think the BEST solution is for all of us to go riding this weekend, how's sunday for you

(Friday, Saturday and Monday too

)

**FROSTY:Me** · 20th January 2005, 23:06

I can see the point being made re the womens only rider training day but I totally disagree.
rather than a gender based split in the training days I think it would be better aiming at those with a lower confidence level be they male or female.
Every reason I've seen applied for a womens only track day applies to riders of a lower experience level or confidence level.
Fear of looking stupid applies just as much to blokes as to females ya know.
I do agree that partners/spectators shouldn't be there -yes it can add to the tension -and stress levels.

**justsomeguy** · 20th January 2005, 23:27

Bloody hell....... 10th of Feb is too close to get time off for.

14th April I can probably manage......

I only want to improve my riding.....

So can we grow up and let everyone come.

Please.

**750Y** · 24th January 2005, 15:38

Pity it was a thursday, some of us gotta work! 8-(
a mixed day & a gals day, sounds good to me, will we be required to present written proof of gender? or will there be a patdown at the gate?