Control tyre for NZSBK

[R1madness]

with all the talk about control tyres in MotoGP i think its time it was thought about for racing here in NZ. I dont sell tyures so it doesn't bother me which brand but what do others think?

[kickingzebra]

Bad for competition, which is bad for pricing. I wouldn't mind seeing tyre rules (useage) tightened though, so we have to pick appropriate compounds to go the distance.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

I think most racers main concern is fronting with the folding stuff in order to buy enough NEW tyres to race on in the first place, secondary consideration is given to the brand specific advantages. So the advantage of everyone running on the one brand tyre may actually be outweighed by uncompetitive prcing by the importer. HOWEVER, different story if MNZ secured a container of DUNLOPS for example and passed on the tyres for cost and made these control tyres. However, the sinic in me says that this wont happen cos its too much work on behalf of MNZ for no return when there are other ways of reducing the cost of superbike racing that is as easy as amending rules in MNZ rulebook.

[scott411]

I think most racers main concern is fronting with the folding stuff in order to buy enough NEW tyres to race on in the first place, secondary consideration is given to the brand specific advantages. So the advantage of everyone running on the one brand tyre may actually be outweighed by uncompetitive prcing by the importer. HOWEVER, different story if MNZ secured a container of DUNLOPS for example and passed on the tyres for cost and made these control tyres. However, the sinic in me says that this wont happen cos its too much work on behalf of MNZ for no return when there are other ways of reducing the cost of superbike racing that is as easy as amending rules in MNZ rulebook.

this would cost a fair bit to do, you would have to prepay for the tyres before they left somewhere,

and i do not think MNZ job is to be a tyre importer,

control tyre in a small market would be a hard thing to do, but it would have its advantages,

[Brutus]

International GP racing should be left to prototype and development that can pass onto the consumer. domestic racing can make its own rules. If $ is factor gaining participants, perhaps "control" tyres are the future.

[Robert Taylor]

I think most racers main concern is fronting with the folding stuff in order to buy enough NEW tyres to race on in the first place, secondary consideration is given to the brand specific advantages. So the advantage of everyone running on the one brand tyre may actually be outweighed by uncompetitive prcing by the importer. HOWEVER, different story if MNZ secured a container of DUNLOPS for example and passed on the tyres for cost and made these control tyres. However, the sinic in me says that this wont happen cos its too much work on behalf of MNZ for no return when there are other ways of reducing the cost of superbike racing that is as easy as amending rules in MNZ rulebook.

Any tyre distributor needs a fair and reasonable commercial return, like any distributor of any product. Be it for life essentials or discretionary spending. Frankly ( in my opinion ) NZ is too small for control tyres ( even by putting out to tender each season ) as I could clearly see that if you failed with your tender you would be less inclined to support the sport in other ways. The sport needs as much industry support as possible. It is getting that and many dont realise just how much there is, per capita.
Keeping the engines much closer to stock with the allowance of a race exhaust system and a tunable ECU would far and away be the best way of reducing costs. Everything else should be left well alone for very solid reasons, including rider safety.

[R1madness]

interesting comments. interesting votes too.
I wonder if we banned replacement ECUs would there be any point in expensive engine mods. Cant remap ignition or fueling not much point in bumping compression or changing cam phasing/lift/duration? what say you all?

[k14]

interesting comments. interesting votes too.
I wonder if we banned replacement ECUs would there be any point in expensive engine mods. Cant remap ignition or fueling not much point in bumping compression or changing cam phasing/lift/duration? what say you all?

Aren't some stock ecu's still programmable anyway?

[Robert Taylor]

interesting comments. interesting votes too.
I wonder if we banned replacement ECUs would there be any point in expensive engine mods. Cant remap ignition or fueling not much point in bumping compression or changing cam phasing/lift/duration? what say you all?

A lot of these bikes out of the box dont fuel cleanly. Add a race pipe and the problem is often worse. A race pipe is justified because among other reasons crash damage costs are often significantly less than oem. Engines that dont fuel smoothly can have abrupt power delivery, not desirable especially on a slippery track.
I think we also have to be mindful that we dont ''dumb down'' the two elite classes excessively. Such classes will NEVER be affordable to all and sundry not matter how ruthless you are in exorcising costs.

[R1madness]

sure some bikes dont fuel properly from the factory but since its "production racing" surely that means the best bike will be the one that offers the best combination of handling, power, brakes, and rideability. If exotic race pipes were banned in favor of street legal slip ons the fueling would not be affected too badly and in some cases improved.
I am not sure a full titanium race system costing just under $4000 can be seen as a cost effective replacement...
Yes some stock ecus can be tuned slightly to compinsate for fuels etc but the variance is small. in most cases about 5%.

[codgyoleracer]

You could definitly argue for a control tyre set up in 600's - along with other standardisation / reduced modifiaction of selected parts.
None of the popular mainstream manufacturers build dangerous bikes to ride or race in this day & age, & there are plenty of race series running overseas that prove that point. In my opinion all of them can be raced quite effectivly in near to stock trim.
The real discussion here though is "If" these types of changes were made would it actually bring more people into the sport ?, - Or are these suggested changes simply targeted at keeping the people that we already have in the sport ?
The machine build cost equates to roughly one third of the total operational cost of racing a bike - so reducing the build costs may not actually have the desired effect (at national level at least).
I can see the cost reduction advantages at club level though.
Glen W

[Taz]

There's no option for "whats NZSBK?" or "I couldn't give a fat rats arse"
(p/t)

[brads]

Keeping the engines much closer to stock with the allowance of a race exhaust system and a tunable ECU would far and away be the best way of reducing costs. Everything else should be left well alone for very solid reasons, including rider safety.

Well put,thinking back to the late nineties when there was a Open Production class with I think those rules,it worked ok,in fact have a look at the lap times in the AMA superbike class(excluding Mladin & Spies),then look at the Superstock class!.Our tracks here apart from Puke would there really be that much difference in lap times?.Racing would still be close.
The difference between Arrow full system and slip on is 3.9hp or $2000plus for 08 CBR1000RR,thats a few sets of tyres.......................

[Robert Taylor]

sure some bikes dont fuel properly from the factory but since its "production racing" surely that means the best bike will be the one that offers the best combination of handling, power, brakes, and rideability. If exotic race pipes were banned in favor of street legal slip ons the fueling would not be affected too badly and in some cases improved.
I am not sure a full titanium race system costing just under $4000 can be seen as a cost effective replacement...
Yes some stock ecus can be tuned slightly to compinsate for fuels etc but the variance is small. in most cases about 5%.

But how often would you destroy a complete exhaust system? Muffler can replacement / reskinning / repair is relatively inexpensive. if someone has the means to spend 4k on a complete system why ( in some peoples eyes ) victimise / demonise them for doing so?

[johan]

I heard a rumor at the track yesterday, that Pirelli NZ had sold out their wets? I'm not sure if that was correct or not, but it has happen to me at least one time a normal sc1 can't be delivered.
It seems importers have a hard time to supply the demand as it is?