The mentor programme has obvious connections with training programmes. Ergo, mentor recommends a training programme or ten. BTW: The reference is bike-rider training, not potty.
Have you completed any biking training programme?
One?
Two or more?
Do you need rider training?
Do you want rider training?
Of the training you have done. Was one or more formal?
Was one or more, one-on-one with a professional instructor?
Have you trained on the track?
Done Eastern Creek or similar?
Are you looking for training opportunities?
I don't need training.
I'm able to answer this stupid poll, so I must be good. Who needs training?
Team Zimmerframe
The mentor programme has obvious connections with training programmes. Ergo, mentor recommends a training programme or ten. BTW: The reference is bike-rider training, not potty.
Only 'Now' exists in reality.
Forum whore
No it doesn't. Mentoring isn't connected to training. By that logic LTNZ is connected to training, training that they have publicly denounced.
If you want training look in the Yellow Pages.
Need training? Everyone needs training. Very few get it. Even fewer seek it again after one course. Most think that circulating a racetrack against a stopwatch run by their "girlfriend" is all the training they need. Being taught how to ride quickly around a racetrack is the type of "over-confidence" training that Government organisations hate with a passion, and with good reason.
A lot of the training courses I've attended don't spend enough time actually on the road. Or off road, depending on what you're being trained in.
I want to know what to do when a Concrete mixer changes across 2 lanes abruptly, cutting me off and crushing me against a barrier. I want to know how to avoid even getting into that position. I really don't think that shaving 2/10ths of a lap off Taupo (or Eastern Creek - WTF, this is NZ, not Aus - are you A Merkin or something?) will help me there.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Forum whore
I didnt answer the poll but...
the only "training" i have had was the basic skills course to get your motorcycle license and that was about 20 years ago.
I think training would be very useful. IT is a matter of knowing what is good training and what is not. Pretty tough in some ways.
I thought track training would have been good but never considered the down sides that James mentions.
So I don't really know what training I would have, but even at 36 I reckon I would benefit massively from good training.
Celestine Prophet
I am hoping to sponge as much knowledge from as many peeps as will take the time to share their experiences and riding ability with me.
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have you found? The same old fears.
Wish you were here. QWQ
Forum whore
Some of those peeps have really bad habits that look like a good idea on the surface (like me) but in reality those habits have developed with constant practice and can only be undone by an objective trainer within the scope of a training forum.
It's taken me years but I can lock the front and recover without shitting myself (for instance). That used to be an automatic crash. I'm also (finally) not going for the brakes in every dodgy situation. The list is endless. Sometimes good mates are the wrong people to ask advice from for no other reason than they have their head together and you don't.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Fenweasal
Eastern Creek? Who's pinched this survey from across the ditch?
Seriously I'm with Jim D on this one. I think there's a big difference on the training that you get at track days, and what you need to survive on the roads.
There are two sets of skills involved, riding (the mechanical side), and street awareness (actually riding on the road). I hope that makes sense, as I just wrote it down as I thought about it.
The mechanical side of things is reasonably easy to teach, and as Jim has said can always be updated, relearnt, etc.
The other part of the equation is probably more of a mental thing, and is really about getting out and building up experience. This is something that can't be taught completely but has to be aquired through practice.
Well that's what I think today.
Just a Dog
Ya make valid points JD, but it's all training ! Be it on the track, road or dirt, the only way most would learn is by experience, having to hit them pics in an emergency, then and usually only then will they think back and go, ok i might have got through that gap to the right of the concrete truck instead of sliding into him !
Biggest mistake though, is outriding yr ability, like alot have said if ya ride at 100 km ya should try emergency stop at that speed !
My biggest plug for anyone new who is learning commuting say for instance, is stay in the carpark longer, learn the bikes stopping ability, then do it in the wet, then on a white line in the wet, see what happens ! Ya have to feel what the bike does before ya can learn how to avoid/correct it !
Dpex mentioned potties, well i still have my potty moments, wont say i'm experienced, but i have experienced and still make mistakes, but learn from em !
Older and wiser now i guess and try not to out ride my ability now days !
The track is all new for me and though i aint rossie, i feel i am learning more each time i go out !
The couple of spills i have had (long time ago now), i look back and both i might have got out of, by releasing the brakes, trusting my tyres and laying it over ! Where am i learning that ?
A girlfriend once asked " Why is it you seem to prefer to race, than spend time with me ?"
The answer was simple ! "I'll prolly get bored with racing too, once i've nailed it !"
Bowls can wait !
e mare libertas
If you're not locking the front and recovering at a trackday, you're not trying hard enough.
I think James Deuce needs to take me up on a certain offer...
Trackdays have their place. That place is finding the limits of one's motorcycle's performance, so that one knows the physics envelope that one has available to work within while applying road safety principles.
Just being familiar with that physics envelope won't save you from being crushed by a concrete truck, and just being super-aware on the road won't save you if you're put into a situation that your bike could get out of, but you don't intuitively know how to take advantage of its handling and power characteristics.
Whole life balance, James-san. When it comes to learning the physics of riding a motorcycle, one trackday is worth six weeks of road riding.
See you in Taupo on 22 November!
(I'll have my licence back by then.)
kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
- mikey
Forum whore
The argument about the track always comes up and it just isn't relevant. There are a few people on KB who consistently travel at multiples of the speed limit and for them the track teaches them useful skills that they can apply when a cow appears on the other side of a blind bend when travelling at speed.
The problem is those people tend to be charismatic and advocate a type of riding that isn't a tenable long term approach to "real-world" motorcycling, and the motorcycle dynamics involved at 100km/hr are vastly different to those at 200 km/hr. Likewise the differences between 50 km/hr and 100 km/hr are huge. They perpetrate the myth that track days have relevance as training days for road riding, because they learn the limits of their bike. They don't. They learn the limits of their knowledge in regard to riding quickly on a race track.
The track just isn't relevant. There's no side streets, opposing traffic, enraged soccer Mums, texting truck drivers (don't get me started) or tailgating Police. It's also really, really wide. The surface doesn't change (much) between the morning and the afternoon either. But most of all the track is about going faster and faster and a lot of people take that attitude to the road. It nearly killed me once upon a time and I'm not keen to see the myth continued.
Going to a track day would be fun, but it isn't going to teach me anything except which way Taupo goes and how much it costs to trailer a broken bike from Taupo to Wellington. People forget I've been "there" before and it was a massive mistake that I still pay for. Race or ride on the road? There are small elements of cross over but I would respectfully suggest that attempting a fulsome career in both at the same time is asking to get hurt or killed. The mental attitudes are hugely different and take massive amounts of maturity to switch between, a level most blokes don't hit until their 50s.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Just a Dog
Personal choice there JD and respect that !Originally Posted by James Deuce
But it's not always about that !
What say you have a speed junkie (ahem) who realises he's gonna be a tempory NZer if he keeps up the antics he was doing on the road !
The track not only teaches you, you CAN get around that corner if your line has been sharpened by a rock or lane crosser, which made you stand it upright, (A lot would instantly fixate on smacking into that bank) but it can also be a fix for a junkie, so he don't go out and get said fix on the highways !
A girlfriend once asked " Why is it you seem to prefer to race, than spend time with me ?"
The answer was simple ! "I'll prolly get bored with racing too, once i've nailed it !"
Bowls can wait !
Fenweasal
It's always about personnal choices. You are responsible for your own actions.
I reckon you're right about going to the track if you're wanting to learn how to get the most out of your bike, but that has nothing to do with riding on the road.
Riding on the road (well safely anyway) requires a different approach and (damn I hate these wank words) mindset.
Learning how to handle your bike will not make you a better rider per se. I still think that the most important part about riding is the mental side of things. With practice any monkey can balance throttle and clutch, trail brake, etc. If that was all that was required we'd all be queuing up for MotoGP rides.
But it's never that simple. FWIW any rider needs to master the basic mechanical skils of riding, and then build up their road craft by actually riding.
As JD has already said the road is not a race track. There are no brake markers, run off area, decent visibility. It really doesn't matter if you can leave your braking until the last possible moment if some smegger steps out in front of you, or you hit a patch of gravel.
Forum whore
That's the argument I hear all the time and it just isn't relevant. A two lane backroad is narrower than a racetrack. If you're travelling at speeds that the racetrack has taught you to cope with then you're doomed if you apply it on the road.
You need to learn relevant skills for the relevant environment. Training needs to be specific, not a generic lap the race track until you drop session with a bit of "advice" from a racer or trackday junkie.
A "speed junkie" either learns that it hurts to the point of nearly dying and changes their ways or dies. Seen it time and again, and lived it more than a little bit. If you're speed junkie take it to the track and keep it there.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Sir Cumference
No it doesn't.
Can I believe the magic of your size... (The Shirelles)
Po ta toes
I know bugger all, but my 2c worth....
I enjoy trackdays and go for the fun factor but also to try things that I don't feel confident practicing on the road.
I have been told many times that if I just sped up a bit I could move up to the medium group, but that's not why I'm there (and I'm sure that pisses others off who ride small CC bikes who are pushing their machine to try and get down the straights and see me just cruising along on my 900 and think "she should be caneing that thing").
I tend to ride the track a bit like it's a road (minus of course all the potential dangers of the road, cars, sheep, oil (usually), other arseholes (sometimes)), and practice good lines, braking techniques, weighting the pegs etc without the dangers of a car booting around the corner on my side of the road.
The beauty of the track is you can get the feel of the bike under heavy braking at speed, how the bike feels when you tip it in just a little further each time you go around the same corner again and again etc, all in a relatively safe environment, and when you're sitting in the pits you can think about your riding, what did and didn't work and give yourself something to think about and practice next session so that it may start to become a habit without the added thinking of being run over by a truck.
I find it improves my riding on the road, repetition works, but the only way to really be prepared for road riding is to get out there and ride it at a limit that suits your experience, skills and confidence. My motto on the road (especially the back country roads where wandering stock and tractors pulling out of driveways etc are my main concerns) is to only ride as fast as you think you can stop.
But like I said, I don't know anything.
Forum whore
I used to think that too Trudes.
I can spot people who've used Trackdays to "improve" their cornering on the road. They usually brake really late and turn in early, setting their apex speed instead of their corner entry speed and dangling their upper body over the centre line. There's a chap on KB, rides a GTR1400 Kwaka. Beautiful signature picture but he's obviously had most of his bike over the centre line in the middle of the corner because it's still mostly over the centre line on the exit.
Nobody seems to rate roadcraft any more. It seems it's all about braking extra hard, cornering extra hard, getting on the gas early, and weighting the pegs. Bugger all people can do a decent U-turn, change gear without lurching or smoothly change direction without it looking like they're passing a kidney stone. How many people pay attention to how they release the brakes and apply the throttle? How many know what the speed limit is at a school crossing, or the speed where their bike transitions from steering where the bars point to countersteering? Or that the rear brake is equally vital in slow speed stuff as it is for loading the front end at speed?
The habits that they pick up on the track with out worrying about that truck often get them run over by that truck.
The point is, good riding technique and good riding habits go hand in hand. They aren't mutually exclusive as the trackday crowd seem to think. The terms of reference are vastly different for each environment. The "improve your road skills at the track" line is just a marketing tool that appeals to the ego, and makes track owners and trackday organisers money.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
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