Staggered formation is wrong

[warewolf]

NighthawkNZ made a comment in another thread that raised alarm bells with me:

staggered formation is still the best, safest and most accepted group riding formation.

This is quite simply, wrong. It has been widely known to be wrong for several decades. I was utterly appalled that the LTNZ & ACC published a 'safety' film in 2005, "Motorcycling in New Zealand: Riding in Groups," suggesting its use.

Why? It leaves riders with no room to manoeuvre and/or in the wrong position on the road. This is demonstrated in the film and can be seen in Nighthawk's attached picture. (I'm not having a go at Nighthawk, he just triggered the train of thought.)

Consider this: bikes staggered at the 2-second interval. Approaching a left curve, the appropriate behaviour is to move to the right wheel track to increase your visibility around the curve. Do this in staggered formation and the 2-second buffer is now sub-1-second (half of 2 seconds minus a bike length). Watch the film. It happens. And no, suddenly spacing back out to 2 seconds in single file is not a solution - and nor is it suggested in the film, anyway.

So in Nighthwak's pic, the left-side riders cannot manoeuvre into the right hand wheel track, the right-side riders cannot manoeuvre into the left hand wheel track. Both riders are compromised.

The answer of course, is single file at 2 seconds, plus breaks in the group to allow following vehicles to pass. That way every rider is at the optimum position on the road without compromise. This has been the accepted group riding strategy since at least the early eighties, as taught by Stay Upright Motorcycle Techniques.

What say you?

[Pixie]

I've been saying this for years - but does anybody listen?

[Nasty]

I have no problem with stagger .. but I allow 2 seconds from the next rider (who will be not in front of me but to the side) .. I treat the area around me accross the whole lane as my riding area this allows me to utilise it fully in turning whichever way and whereever I am positioned on the road.

If a newbie is riding with me I think this is safest as they then have the whole side of the road and are not riding up the arse of the rider on the side of them while learning how to judge speed.

In other words I think it is taught wrong (if ya know what I mean)!!

[Jantar]

Sorry Warewolf, I'm with Nighthawk and ACC that staggered formation is just fine. In staggered formation the lane is effectively split up the middle into two lanes, and you keep within your own split lane.

So what is wrong is the rider who does as you suggest and moves out from the left hand split lane into the right hand split lane effective now riding in single file. He should move over no further than the center of the total lane, thus leaving the right hand split lane for the rider behind him.

It is not the staggered formation that is wrong, it's that not all riders have learned the art of staggered riding.

[pritch]

The answer of course, is single file at 2 seconds, plus breaks in the group to allow following vehicles to pass.

Allow vehicles to pass? What country was this supposed to be happening in?

[Grub]

No issue as far as I can see. Is somebody advocating 2 seconds from the bike in your lane or 2 seconds from th bike next in line? Where did the graphic come from?

I ride, as do most others, 2 secs from the bike next in line (different position, same lane). In that context, staggered is primo because your margin can be as much as 4 secs from the bike directly in front of you.

[warewolf]

In staggered formation the lane is effectively split up the middle into two lanes, and you keep within your own split lane.

But you are compromised because you now only have half a lane to play in, and you have another vehicle within your buffer zone, albeit it to the side.

[warewolf]

Is somebody advocating 2 seconds from the bike in your lane or 2 seconds from th bike next in line? Where did the graphic come from?

2 secs from the bike in line, 1 sec from the bike on the other side of your lane. Possibly Nighthawk created it, but it is a true representation of the intent of staggered formation.

I ride, as do most others, 2 secs from the bike next in line (different position, same lane). In that context, staggered is primo because your margin can be as much as 4 secs from the bike directly in front of you.

Except that normally you should be in the right hand wheel track with a 2 second buffer. If you have the 2 second buffer, there's no need to be in the left hand wheel track - it is no longer staggered formation.

[Grub]

you have the 2 second buffer, there's no need to be in the left hand wheel track - it is no longer staggered formation.

Ahh but there is. Then you have a 4 second buffer. It's more comfortable - and safe.

Regarding the left hand wheel track, I often use it quite deliberately. Coming up to an intersection with cars waiting or approaching from the left, I move left so I'm not masked or hidden by the car in front of me. I also flick my light onto full beam (if it's not there already)

[Jantar]

But you are compromised because you now only have half a lane to play in, and you have another vehicle within your buffer zone, albeit it to the side.

This is where the comment I made about learning the art of staggered riding applies. If you are riding in a group situation then you are not "playing", you are riding. You do still have your buffer zone, because there is a normal gap to the rider in front, and there are is no traffic alongside. If you do need to make a deviation because of an obstruction or similar, then you can, safely and quickly, and still return to your own part of the lane as soon as possible.

[Cruisin' Craig]

NighthawkNZ made a comment in another thread that raised alarm bells with me:
This is quite simply, wrong. It has been widely known to be wrong for several decades. I was utterly appalled that the LTNZ & ACC published a 'safety' film in 2005, "Motorcycling in New Zealand: Riding in Groups," suggesting its use.

Why? It leaves riders with no room to manoeuvre and/or in the wrong position on the road. This is demonstrated in the film and can be seen in Nighthawk's attached picture. (I'm not having a go at Nighthawk, he just triggered the train of thought.)

Consider this: bikes staggered at the 2-second interval. Approaching a left curve, the appropriate behaviour is to move to the right wheel track to increase your visibility around the curve. Do this in staggered formation and the 2-second buffer is now sub-1-second (half of 2 seconds minus a bike length). Watch the film. It happens. And no, suddenly spacing back out to 2 seconds in single file is not a solution - and nor is it suggested in the film, anyway.

So in Nighthwak's pic, the left-side riders cannot manoeuvre into the right hand wheel track, the right-side riders cannot manoeuvre into the left hand wheel track. Both riders are compromised.

The answer of course, is single file at 2 seconds, plus breaks in the group to allow following vehicles to pass. That way every rider is at the optimum position on the road without compromise. This has been the accepted group riding strategy since at least the early eighties, as taught by Stay Upright Motorcycle Techniques.

What say you?

I'll add an opinion to the contrary then eh?

I say that being in staggered formation doesn't mean you have to be closer then two seconds to the bike in front, of course you should still be leaving a gap!

Being in staggered formation also doesn't mean you can't leave breaks for vehicles to pass. As long as the proper gap is maintained, there is plenty of room to manouvre and to ensure you have the space to line up your corners properly.

The negative points that you suggested for group riding, actually apply only to people who ride in a staggered group too closely together.

I support staggered riding, and I believe that there's only a problem when people view it as an alternative to the usual guidelines such as the two-second rule.

[R6_kid:Me]

On straight sections of road it can be great... when it comes to a corner back off from the guy in front a bit and take YOUR OWN LINE through the corner, don't follow the guy in fronts line, or watch where he goes... ride your own bike.

[crashe]

Now just imagine on the Westpac Fundraiser Ride that is coming up in February, if no one did the stagger formation...... 1600 bikes all in single file in the one lane on the motorway...... I am sure the cops would love us.... Not !

Neither would the traffic sitting for a very long time, on the off ramps waiting for the motorway to be opened up again for them to use.


Seriously just do like R6_kid said if out on the open roads or where-ever

On straight sections of road it can be great... when it comes to a corner back off from the guy in front a bit and take YOUR OWN LINE through the corner, don't follow the guy in fronts line, or watch where he goes... ride your own bike.

[Pussy]

I personally like the stagger formation. Went to welly last weekend, rode with Kendog, Mrs Kendog, Jim2,Grub, Lissa, Skelstar etc etc. Without any pre-arranged riding pattern being spoken of. Felt VERY comfortable riding with all you guys, everyone fell in to the staggered formation, all worked nice

[MSTRS:Me]

I've been stagger-riding for years, and so do all my riding mates. Any other way would not feel right. There is a dynamic going on, and everyone just seems to know where and how to position themselves as part of the whole.