Troy Corser's the man! Yukio aint bad either.

[merv]

Truth be known the whole problem is one of economics and started about the time of Rogernomics and a whole lot of political correctness that has followed. We see boy racers in cars these days because first of all our change in classes within society has meant the rich have got richer while the poor are rotting in hell, so the poor aren't buying bikes. Then the open market philosophies allowed the flood of Jap import cars in, so if they are vaguely rich enough to buy anything they buy a cheap but fast car - can carry the piss, drugs and chicks. The do-gooders saw to the tightening of licence requirements and then it was harder to get a bike licence than it had been. All this has added up to a market now for bikes that is a fraction of what is was 20 - 30 years ago.

When Aaron Slight was racing in the early days here he rode for Gregory's of Masterton. We had lots of dealer supported racing, which they could afford if they were getting sales. Then the shops started closing or really wound back their effort and you can't blame them if the young people weren't flocking in the doors. So things like the Castrol 6 hour evaporated.

Its the punter buying bikes that helps dictate the racing scene. After the lows of the 90's to me things do look more promising these days given the backing we are seeing from the dealers. So the economy is a bit more bouyant and there is a bit more money to splash around it seems. So I don't think its all bad news. However, WT might be able to tell us, how much of an increase of Suzuki sales would he need for WMCC to field a 3 strong or more team like they did in the days of the Hiscocks, Holden and Toomey? I suspect it would have to be a 3 fold increase or more on a sales of units basis. I suspect that is never going to happen now that the youth of today have tasted their turbo cars and bling bling.

We can only do our bit to encourage people into the joys of biking. Me personally, I'm a dismal failure and neither of my kids have even considered getting a bike licence. No point forcing them, because I would end up paying and they would blame me if it all went wrong anyway.

That's my take on all this, its more of a society wealth and culture thing than it is anything to do with MNZ and their class structure. If the sales were there, the interest would be there, like it used to be in the 250 proddy days for example, and I am sure the dealers would lobby for a series anyway and MNZ would do something. An example of this is the V8 cars - they have their NZ series I am sure only because enough people are buying them and therefore like to watch them at the track. Its money that does the talking.

[enigma51]

To be honest I will be more than willing if there was a carrot hangin in front of me to spend money on racing. Even if we took lets say the 75000 and spilt it between the top 6 it will still be enough for people to spend the money. Its very easy most of us want to race for the fun of it but not all of us can gough up the doug

[Kickaha]

sure theres buckets etc but did Aaron Slight start there??? .

Aaron Slight might not of but there are quite a few past NZ champions that did

i guess the other problem i have is im very compeditive so i couldnt just race for the enjoyment, my enjoyment comes from achieving.....

You mean if you don't win you go away and and sulk then get a bucket come out and get your arse kicked,you'll get used to it

The Britten meeting is indeed a step in the right direction,however even the promise of good prize money doesn't guarantee good racing or numbers in the classes,last year a planned motard class was cancelled due to lack of interest and the 600 class wasn't well supported and while there was good racing it was no better than any I have seen at National champs

The main Difference was the crowd,really good numbers due to the fact they promoted the event more effectively than the nationals ever has been in recent years

Wouldn’t it be great if the classes were consolidated so that there is something entry level that costs no more than go-kart racing

Kart racing isn't cheap at any level if you want to be competitive

[James Deuce]

Kart racing isn't cheap at any level if you want to be competitive

Tried to run a KT100 for a year. Gave up after one meeting and an addition to the mortgage in measurable percentage points.

Superkarts? An old V8 racer would be cheaper.

[merv]

A point about Aaron is he started on dirt bikes at a young age which is a cheap way to get started and is a bit like buckets in that respect. He didn't just magically turn up on the road circuit out of nowhere.

Some may remember too that Robert Holden's first road race title was on a 125 MXer.

[**R1**]

Aaron Slight might not of but there are quite a few past NZ champions that did



You mean if you don't win you go away and and sulk then get a bucket come out and get your arse kicked,you'll get used to it

The Britten meeting is indeed a step in the right direction,however even the promise of good prize money doesn't guarantee good racing or numbers in the classes,last year a planned motard class was cancelled due to lack of interest and the 600 class wasn't well supported and while there was good racing it was no better than any I have seen at National champs

The main Difference was the crowd,really good numbers due to the fact they promoted the event more effectively than the nationals ever has been in recent years



Kart racing isn't cheap at any level if you want to be competitive

yeah i think i explained myself wrong,
i wouldnt give somthing up just coz i aint no good at it, but how fast do buckets go?? the buzz i get from racing is SPEED and lots of it, winning is algood tho.....plus at 80kg i dont think i would take full advantage of a tiny bike

[TonyB]

Tried to run a KT100 for a year. Gave up after one meeting and an addition to the mortgage in measurable percentage points.

Superkarts? An old V8 racer would be cheaper.

So did I. Tried it when I lost my licence for 6 months in my early 20's. I too chucked it in after one meeting and a number of frustrating practices- I was sold a dodgy engine by a kart dealer who was going out of business (didn't know at the time). I got sick of the lack of reliability. The problem with kart racing, even at KT100 level, is there's engines, then there's ENGINES. They allow modification to the engine (blueprinting, and other stuff I don't understand) so a guy with cash is going to have a much faster kart than someone with the basic KT100 engine.

What I'm talking about with bikes is for a standard bike to be adopted, such as the FX150 or something similarly cheap. The engines would be sealed, so no modifications would be allowed at all. Any engine work would be carried out by designated mechanics (in the same way as the new Toyota based slicks and wings car class). No mods to suspension, exhausts- nothing. A control tyre would be used. Then we would all see who has the most TALENT, not the most money. Perhaps the dealers would offer discounted prices for the bike and any parts and work to be done, provided you were racing it in the series. I could see the new manufacturers such as Hyosung or Ssayong(?) jumping at the chance to get their products involved in something like this. Because there would be a control tyre, the bulk buying power of the riders could be used to get a discounted rate on that tyre. Same goes for riding gear- if the series adopted one brand of leathers, then bulk buying could again be used to get them at a good price, maybe the manufacturers logo would be put on all the bikes in return for a good price. Can you see where I'm going here?

As for money, obviously we're not going to get $75k from Kiwibiker members, but surely the Lotteries commission could be hit up for some cash. If the carrot at the end was to be a member of a 2 bike team in the World supersports, then the winner would get 2 years exposure- more if they came back during our summer and won again. If a suitable NZ corporate sponsor couldn't be found, there must be the possiblilty of getting an overseas sponsor.

[James Deuce]

So did I. Tried it when I lost my licence for 6 months in my early 20's. I too chucked it in after one meeting and a number of frustrating practices- I was sold a dodgy engine by a kart dealer who was going out of business (didn't know at the time). I got sick of the lack of reliability. The problem with kart racing, even at KT100 level, is there's engines, then there's ENGINES. They allow modification to the engine (blueprinting, and other stuff I don't understand) so a guy with cash is going to have a much faster kart than someone with the basic KT100 engine.

It sounds pathetic, but I'd gotten reasonably good at Indoor Karting, went well at a couple of track days in Kart club KT100s, and enjoyed the one race I entered (despite the 360 on the entry to a hairpin ). But by crikey there are as you say, some ENGINES out there. And it's all about whose back you're scratching and how much moolah you have. I hate politics a lot more than spending cash, and when I was obviously struggling to get the Kart running for practice, the way they stood round like vultures waiting for the fresh meat to rot just put me off altogether.

What I'm talking about with bikes is for a standard bike to be adopted, such as the FX150 or something similarly cheap. The engines would be sealed, so no modifications would be allowed at all. Any engine work would be carried out by designated mechanics (in the same way as the new Toyota based slicks and wings car class). No mods to suspension, exhausts- nothing. A control tyre would be used. Then we would all see who has the most TALENT, not the most money. Perhaps the dealers would offer discounted prices for the bike and any parts and work to be done, provided you were racing it in the series. I could see the new manufacturers such as Hyosung or Ssayong(?) jumping at the chance to get their products involved in something like this. Because there would be a control tyre, the bulk buying power of the riders could be used to get a discounted rate on that tyre. Same goes for riding gear- if the series adopted one brand of leathers, then bulk buying could again be used to get them at a good price, maybe the manufacturers logo would be put on all the bikes in return for a good price. Can you see where I'm going here?

Yeah, nice idea. I reckon the Hyosung 250s would be the go, and I reckon Hyosung would be all over it like a rash.

[TonyB]

But wait, there’s more!
The cost of getting from meeting to meeting in NZ is fairly high, especially with the ditch in the middle. Young guy’s especially would find this tricky “what, I bought the bike and now I need a VAN?” Solution? Hit up a transport company for a good rate to freight the bikes (The Bobsfreight NZ Champs?). Make transport trays for the bikes that are loadable with forklifts.
Hit up an airline/ bus company for good rates for the racers.
In that new slicks and wings class, they lease the engines from Toyota. The engines are covered in seals and can only be worked on by their mechanics. Could be an idea, but what about having a flat rate for the whole year? You pay up $X, either up front or instalments, then there are designated workshops in the major centres. So where ever you are, you just rock up to the designated workshop and say “fix it please bro” and it is done. Odds are that unmodified bikes will be pretty reliable, so the costs of the few that have a major mishap will be covered by those that are trouble free. Racers are safe in the knowledge that they’re not going to be hit with an unexpected bill.
Back in the days of RZ350's, there used to be a series (maybe not here) where riders turned up, drew keys out of a hat, and raced the bike the keys were for. The bikes were all prepared for them and they just turned up and raced. Not a bad idea- sounds a lot like the rent a racer thing.

[Big Dave]

Back in the days of RZ350's, there used to be a series (maybe not here).

The Yamaha 250 World Cup was a great thing - there were National Champs on proddy RD250's in Oz UK Sweden NZ? etc etc and the winners went to Brands Hatch or similar for the 'World Championship'. Was it called yamaha Gold Cup or similar?

My best mate and riding buddy back in Newcastle NSW - the fabulous Mr Rusty Howard - won the whole shootin' match in 1988. I've used the trophy as an ashtray!

Great series - should be done again - Triumph are running a Thruxton Cup in the US - that would be cool too.

bd

[White trash]

Triumph are running a Thruxton Cup in the US - that would be cool too.

bd

Very cool. Just a little expensive.

[k14]

yeah i think i explained myself wrong,
i wouldnt give somthing up just coz i aint no good at it, but how fast do buckets go?? the buzz i get from racing is SPEED and lots of it, winning is algood tho.....plus at 80kg i dont think i would take full advantage of a tiny bike

Again all of those are misconceptions. On the b track the fastest bucket was lapping 5 secs a lap slower than the fastest guy in f1 (on a 999). The guy that came 2nd in last years series would weigh more than that i think (not kickaha) but he would be around 80 aswell.

Even though the bikes are small and not very powerful they are still fast. Top speed of around 120 i think. A whole season and bike can be had for less than a grand if you already have the gear. IMO the cheapest form of racing in NZ.

[gav]

The one make one hit wonder scheme has been tried before, the most recent being the SV650 rent a rcer idea. Brilliant idea really, but seemed to die after what 1 maybe 2 seasons at the most. Unfortunately I think NZ is too small to expect one brand to carry the can. As it is, you cant complain about Suzukis efforts lately. The best class would be the 150's. You have Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki available and it would be good to see some of the top riders riding as well. Andy Bolwell raced a Kawi 150 for a while. They just need to be continued long enough to gain support, how about a Blue Wing Honda team on NSR150's?
How about setting a maximum hp and all bikes to be dynoed at scrutineering and top 5 to be redynoed after each race?

[Kickaha]

yeah i think i explained myself wrong,
i wouldnt give somthing up just coz i aint no good at it, but how fast do buckets go?? the buzz i get from racing is SPEED and lots of it, winning is algood tho.....plus at 80kg i dont think i would take full advantage of a tiny bike

In the top 4-5 guys in Chch there is only one guy under 80kg and the guy who got 2nd is 100kg+.

I've raced 250 superkarts that would piss on your R1 and without a doubt the bucket is far more fun despite the fact it's a lot slower

A lot of the fun to be had out of buckets is doing over guys on bigger faster bikes,like the guys on the RS250 Aprilla and ZXR400 I passed in the wet at Timaru or the 650 Triumph at Nelson

Most people dismiss them because they aren't real fast but they teach better riding skills than big bikes ever will,if you want to learn to ride hard,race a slow bike!

A one make series only goes part way to adressing NZ road race problems and perhaps at an entry level is a good idea but we dont have a clearly defined path for people to follow if they chose to go overseas to race and our classes aren't aligned with other countries

I think bringing the 600 and 1000 in line with Australia would be a good start

[TonyB]

we dont have a clearly defined path for people to follow if they chose to go overseas to race and our classes aren't aligned with other countries

I think bringing the 600 and 1000 in line with Australia would be a good start

Eggzackery!
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know alot about Buckets. Is there a fair bit of disparity even in buckets, or is it pretty even? Just seems that there would be a wide range of bikes getting converted. Are there rules on what you can do to the engine?