Sym Voyager 250 GTS

[Flange]

Mileage is now 16,800 and all's well.

According to the service manual, I should have fitted a new drive belt at 12,000km but I've been keeping a good eye on the original belt and there's no sign of cracking or perishing. Wear is measurable but it is still well within the specified width tolerance, so I've ordered another belt just in case and will run out the standard one until it gets down to 22.5mm wide.

I don't know how my type of running would affect belt wear. I live rural and most of my running is open road so the bike spends most of it's life around 100-120km/hr. Does this cause more or less belt wear than would town running with it's continuous speeding up and slowing down ? Dunno really.

It's on the third set of tyres, this time Dunlops and these are the best so far. My wife's identical scoot still has the OEM Maxxis and the difference in handling is very significant.

It's winter time, and my fingers know it ! Note the nice set of handguards ? They're aftermarket jobbies, if anybody's interested PM me for details. Mounting them was a bit fiddly but worth it.

Most significantl though is the exhaust system. Previous posts detail the replacement of the original 8.5kg behemouth with a svelte 2kg item from a mid-80s VTR250. This dramatically improved the ride, and the handling on bumpy surfaces, but I wasn't terribly happy with the aesthetics nor the sound. While pottering in the shed recently I noticed a long-forgotten can (in lovely titanium no less) off an 01 Suzuki GSX-R1000. Gixxer riders tend to take them off and put something noiser on in the misguided belief that in doing so they will get more power. In reality they're a very free-flowing and light muffler. Cursory inspection indicated that it wouldn't be too difficult to adapt that to fit, and so it was. I simply needed to make up a flange plate and front pipe to connect to the standard header along with a small bracket to bridge the gap between the top front muffler mount and the standard bracket on the can and voila !

I didn't weigh the Gixxer can but it feels slightly lighter than the VTR item, and certainly it looks better to my eye. It's a bit louder than the original Sym can but the sound quality is heaps better than the VTR can, it's a lovely gruff sound so I can certainly live with that. Throttle response is better and there seems to be a tad more power but I haven't tested it on the Ohope Hill yet.

Best of all, when it comes time to sell the bike I can simply remove the titanium can and bolt the original straight back on.

Happy with the Sym ? You bet.

Cheers
Flange

[MarkH]

Mileage is now 16,800 and all's well.

According to the service manual, I should have fitted a new drive belt at 12,000km but I've been keeping a good eye on the original belt and there's no sign of cracking or perishing. Wear is measurable but it is still well within the specified width tolerance, so I've ordered another belt just in case and will run out the standard one until it gets down to 22.5mm wide.

I don't know how my type of running would affect belt wear. I live rural and most of my running is open road so the bike spends most of it's life around 100-120km/hr. Does this cause more or less belt wear than would town running with it's continuous speeding up and slowing down ? Dunno really.

It's on the third set of tyres, this time Dunlops and these are the best so far. My wife's identical scoot still has the OEM Maxxis and the difference in handling is very significant.

While pottering in the shed recently I noticed a long-forgotten can (in lovely titanium no less) off an 01 Suzuki GSX-R1000.

My Burgy has hit 24,000 KMs and the belt is due for replacement - I will remove the cover and measure the belt. They aren't cheap so I will only replace it when I have to.

My Bridgestone Hoops are still good - the rear I replaced at 16,000 KMs is doing well and my front is the original, I might get to 30, 000 KMs before it has to be replaced.

I am a little envious of your exhaust - mine is still factory and really heavy. I don't know how well things would go with the O² sensor if I tried to fit a can that wasn't designed for my scoot. But like yours, mine is part of the unsprung weight - so lighter would be much better.

[NZscoot]

Flange - good to hear the GTS is still doing it for you.

I changed out the stock air cleaner for a foam one like you did. I seem to feel throttle response is worse, but I had two layers of Uni foam in. Now running with only one layer - so we'll see.

The Citycom has almost 7000kms on now. It is a great scoot and runs like clockwork. I'm still on the original Maxxis tires. My rides are all in the city therefor the tires doesn't have flat spots. You can read about my experiences here:
http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index...d=16772&page=1

I've fitted a bigger Givi screen which protects my hands pretty good. Handy especially this morning with -2C here in Christchurch.

Well all for now. off for another 5 degC ride home now.

[Flange]

My Bridgestone Hoops are still good - the rear I replaced at 16,000 KMs is doing well and my front is the original, I might get to 30, 000 KMs before it has to be replaced.

I am a little envious of your exhaust - mine is still factory and really heavy. I don't know how well things would go with the O² sensor if I tried to fit a can that wasn't designed for my scoot. But like yours, mine is part of the unsprung weight - so lighter would be much better.

Bloody Norah, how do you get that sort of mileage from tyres ?

As for the O2 sensor, providing it is fitted in the "normal" position (in the pipe between the exhaust port and the muffler) then changing the muffler should make no difference to the ECU. If there's any sort of catalytic converter upstream of the O2 sensor, the situation might be a bit more complex.

[Flange]

I changed out the stock air cleaner for a foam one like you did. I seem to feel throttle response is worse, but I had two layers of Uni foam in. Now running with only one layer - so we'll see.
.

I've been thinking of making up something a bit larger, perhaps a sheet of light aluminium (or even something like radiator guard) cut to the same outside size as the standard air cleaner and then covered with Twin Air, that should give enough surface area.

I wonder too just how "unique" the Sym air cleaner is ? Maybe Sym have designed an air filter specifically for this bike, but more likely they've simply used an existing design from a specialist filter manufacturer somewhere in Taiwan. I saw an advert from someone like Polini for washable air filters and some of them looked at least broadly similar in shape to the Sym item. Maybe there's an aftermarket item out there somewhere,,,

[MarkH]

Bloody Norah, how do you get that sort of mileage from tyres ?

*shrug* I dunnoe - I just ride the scoot, no wheelies or burnouts or anything, I just ride around and the tyre wears however much it wears.

How do you find swapping between the scooter and the SV? I wish I had some spare money - I see that the SV1000S can be bought brand new for $12K with lower fairing brand new, bloody hell that seems like excellent value. That would make an excellent weekend bike with the scooter kept as a weekday commuter.

[NZscoot]

I've been thinking of making up something a bit larger, perhaps a sheet of light aluminium (or even something like radiator guard) cut to the same outside size as the standard air cleaner and then covered with Twin Air, that should give enough surface area.

I wonder too just how "unique" the Sym air cleaner is ? Maybe Sym have designed an air filter specifically for this bike, but more likely they've simply used an existing design from a specialist filter manufacturer somewhere in Taiwan. I saw an advert from someone like Polini for washable air filters and some of them looked at least broadly similar in shape to the Sym item. Maybe there's an aftermarket item out there somewhere,,,

Hmm..that makes me think. I know a chap here that makes steel mesh. Perhaps he has a bit I could use. There is probably more than half the surface area not used. Should be very easy. I'm going to look into it.

[Flange]

How do you find swapping between the scooter and the SV? I wish I had some spare money - I see that the SV1000S can be bought brand new for $12K with lower fairing brand new, bloody hell that seems like excellent value. That would make an excellent weekend bike with the scooter kept as a weekday commuter.

No real problem, I'm just very careful to re-calibrate the brain during the first ten or so KM on the SV. Occasionally I am left wondering why the SV doesn't slow down when I squeeze the left lever...

I bought my SV new in 03, not with any particular plan of keeping it long term, but it's just kind of happened that way. I'm fortunate in being able to try all the latest and greatest bikes - R1s, Gix 750 & 1000, Duc 1098 etc, long enough to get past the initial "gee whiz" and so far none of them have compelled me to change. Over the years I've messed around with the SV quite a bit but even stock they're a very good bike. Maybe their biggest problem is the "budget" tag they seem to have acquired, probably with the assistance of fashion-driven journos. Particularly in 03 they were a quite advanced bike and even today they're certainly not outdated technically, and the component list is certainly not that of a budget bike.

Performance-wise they don't have the top end of the litre fours, but up to around 200 or so they seem to be as good as anything, better than most. On the full front straight at Taupo pretty much the only bikes that get away are the ones being ridden by better riders.

Best of all, if ya don't need a brand new one there's plenty available second hand in tidy condition for seven or eight grand.

Cheers
Flange

[Flange]

Hmm..that makes me think. I know a chap here that makes steel mesh. Perhaps he has a bit I could use. There is probably more than half the surface area not used. Should be very easy. I'm going to look into it.

Yair, that would be the go. Trace the outline of an original filter onto the mesh & cut it out. Then trace it onto some filter foam, cut that out and bond it on around the edges of the mesh.

Or something like that.

Let me know how you get on. Ya wouldn't need a very close mesh.

Did I read somewhere that you work in the medical technology field ? If so, we would expect a masterpiece !

Cheers
Flange

[MarkH]

Maybe their biggest problem is the "budget" tag they seem to have acquired

I would describe them as damn good value rather than budget.

Performance-wise they don't have the top end of the litre fours, but up to around 200 or so they seem to be as good as anything, better than most.

That is all the performance I would ever need - I would love to get a nice sports-tourer for weekend riding. What happens at 200+ is for racers to worry about on the track.

Alas my budget is worse than zero at the moment so I will have to wait for my finances to improve before buying a nice bike.

[SS90]

Mileage is now 16,800 and all's well.

According to the service manual, I should have fitted a new drive belt at 12,000km but I've been keeping a good eye on the original belt and there's no sign of cracking or perishing. Wear is measurable but it is still well within the specified width tolerance, so I've ordered another belt just in case and will run out the standard one until it gets down to 22.5mm wide.

I don't know how my type of running would affect belt wear. I live rural and most of my running is open road so the bike spends most of it's life around 100-120km/hr. Does this cause more or less belt wear than would town running with it's continuous speeding up and slowing down ? Dunno really.

While that is very good mileage from a belt, I would personally caution you on the reason the manufactures suggest you replace the belts earlier than it appears you should.

The pulleys (particularly the front one) sustain quite alot of wear during normal operation.

Normally this wear is difficult too see (because the surface gets quite polished during normal operation), the best way is to run your finger along the drive surface of the pulley........most likely you will feel a "groove" where the belt travels through it's range (also the groove will be at it's deepest at the point where the belt sits during it's "normal" operation.....this will vary from owner to owner, like you say, you use it at open road speeds, so it sits in one position more than constantly moving through it's range, like you would expect on a scooter used in town and the assosiated stop/start motoring.

If you allow the wear to get quite deep, then when you do replace the belt, the new belt will be running on considerably "deep" grooves.

My opinion is that the new belt will simply not last as long as the first, due to the pully wear situation.

I am not saying that the belt will snap immediately, but it is most likely that it will wear prematurely and either wear out substantually faster than the fist one, or perhaps even break unexpectedly (between service inspections)

Personally I recommend a thorough inspection of the pully system, with careful attention to the surface when you do replace the belt.

[Flange]

Thanks for that SS90, I will put The Beast up on the workbench this weekend and check the pulley faces. Do both front and rear pulleys tend to grove ? Also what do you know about the relative merits of kevlar belts ?

The thought of a breakage has been foremost in my considerations, that could be more than just an embuggerance if it happens far from home. Jocelyn and I are planning on doing the Burt Munro in November; I wouldn't be happy to suffer a belt failure down there.

Cheers
Flange

[SS90]

Thanks for that SS90, I will put The Beast up on the workbench this weekend and check the pulley faces. Do both front and rear pulleys tend to grove ? Also what do you know about the relative merits of kevlar belts ?

The thought of a breakage has been foremost in my considerations, that could be more than just an embuggerance if it happens far from home. Jocelyn and I are planning on doing the Burt Munro in November; I wouldn't be happy to suffer a belt failure down there.

Cheers
Flange

Most (all) rear pullys are steel, and while they certainly do wear, it takes significantly high mileage to affect them.

The fronts are all aluminium (hence more wear).

Also don't forget to check the front pully rollers (inside the pully assembly), they should be round, and any signs of flat spots (even on one roller) will cause acceleration losses!

I have noticed on front pullys a tendancy for a rubber build up (the opposite of the groove problem!) from belt wear. You can clearly see a black groove from the belt.This is easily removed with brake cleaner and elbow grease (normally)

To be honest, I know pro's or con's with kevlar belts, but I would be confident that such an item would cause premature pully wear.........

Niced too see someone taking a real interest in CVT maintenance!

[Flange]

To be honest, I know pro's or con's with kevlar belts, but I would be confident that such an item would cause premature pully wear.........

Niced too see someone taking a real interest in CVT maintenance!

Dunno really. I would imagine that the coefficient of friction between the belt and pulley, the amount of it's material that the belt sacrifices, and the temperature at which the belt and pulley run at would all combine to dictate the rate of wear of the pulley.

I once saw a video of a CVT running with the cover off (apparently a very dangerous practice) and one of the things which really stood out was the amount of whip which the belt experienced as it came off the pulleys. I would imagine that the greater the whip, the greater the amount of flexion the belt is experiencing, and therefore the greater the heat buildup in the belt and pulleys. I wonder what effect the use of kevlar belting would have on this whip ?

I thought while watching the video that perhaps some sort of idler close to the point at which the belt comes off the pulley might help to settle things down a bit and make life easier for the belt.

Also the amount of dirt accumulating inside the CVT housing must have quite an impact, although this factor would probably be independent of the belt material. The Sym has a foam filter on the air intake of the CVT housing. When the bike was new I treated the filter with a little K&N air filter oil to make it a bit more efficient at trapping dust.

I really appreciate having people to discuss these things with.

Cheers
Flange

[Spearfish]

One of the modifications moped riders do is fit a racing version of variator, they are slightly larger in diameter and have a better ramp face angle.
I think for every 1mm lost in belt width is around 3kmh lost in speed, probably not a problem for larger scooters but it sure is for mopeds.
Another thing to play with is the roller weights, lighter weights = more acceleration for around town but less top end ( the two faces are pushed together slower and a lesser amount making the variator a smaller diameter for longer) or heavier weights = more top end but less acceleration (pulley faces move faster and further for a larger diameter and engine load).
They also get slightly longer belts so the belt can travel further out to the edge of the pulley. When I did mine it added 10kph over the standard kit for the same engine revs. Manufactures set them at an average weight for average use.
I know malossi make a full replacement multivar kit for most maxi scooters but I don't know how easy they are to get here in NZ.
The on-line http://www.sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Home.aspx is very big and popular but getting the bits here would be horrendously expensive.