Sym Voyager 250 GTS

[SS90]

I thought while watching the video that perhaps some sort of idler close to the point at which the belt comes off the pulley might help to settle things down a bit and make life easier for the belt.

Also the amount of dirt accumulating inside the CVT housing must have quite an impact, although this factor would probably be independent of the belt material. The Sym has a foam filter on the air intake of the CVT housing. When the bike was new I treated the filter with a little K&N air filter oil to make it a bit more efficient at trapping dust.

I really appreciate having people to discuss these things with.

Cheers
Flange

I'm a little lazy to google it just now, but I know that Polaris used to have (maybe they still do) CVT high performance quads (I think mid 90's) and while I never saw one with the covers off, I would ASSUME (dangerous I know) that they would have a really good system (high performance set up) If anything would have an idler roller, my guess would be that they would!

Personally, I would try and find some pictures of such a set up, I too would be interested in seeing if they dramatically altered the somewhat "tried and true" system we see today (that seem somewhat unchanged it 25 years or so!

[Flange]

So here we have two takes on the GSX-R can conversion. My (black) one has an 01 can while Jocelyn's (blue) scoot has a can from an 03 GSX-R1000 which is 110mm longer and does I believe have a rudimentary catalytic converter in it. I think that the 03 Suzukis used a catalytic lining around the outside of a straight through tube rather than the more common honeycomb type so it's not likely to pose gas flow problems as it gets older.

Given the option I would rather use the 01 can as, being shorter the centre of mass would be further forward and thus put less load on the brackets. If that proves to be a real problem I will put a second mount further back on the can.

Neither muffler seems to provide any noticeable performance difference from the standard SYM item, the major advantage is the saving of 6kg of unsprung weight from the rear suspension which does produce a dramatic improvement in suspension action.

Where I have been able to obtain a modest performance gain is with the air filter. I've previously described cutting the pleated paper out of a standard filter and replacing it with Twin Air filter foam. Problem was, the surface area of pleated paper of a given size is significantly greater than that of the equivalent sized piece of foam. So, with the help of a piece of wire mesh from Mitre 10's garden centre and a larger piece of Twin Air foam, both sized and shaped to completely fill the airbox, I've made up a washable filter which probably has a rather greater surface area than the original paper pleats, This does produce a slight improvement in mid-range power and on the Ohope hill the scoot now gets two or three km/hr more speed by the top. I've yet to check the exhaust gas but suspect that it's marginally lean at most throttle settings so maybe there's a bit of power to be gained by raising the needle a tad and perhaps going up a size on the main jet.

I haven't photographed my home made filter as it looks a bit muttley, but if experience proves it to be viable I might make another tidier one and post a picture.

Another approach I'm considering is to put a cylindrical foam filter (a la motorcross) on the intake snorkel and leaving the airbox empty. Advantages would include easier access and potentially greater still surface area. Maybe.

Still on the original belt at 19,000km, no sign of wear on the pulleys. I've bought a new belt (if anybody needs specs and measurements let me know and I will post them) but whilst my scoot is doing maybe 200rpm more than Jocelyn's at 100km/hr (hers has covered less than 4,000 very gentle km) I don't think this is reason enough to change the belt yet. If the belt starts showing signs of fraying around the sides or cracking anywhere, or if the revs raise much more, then I will change it.

Cheers
Flange

[Flange]

Crap ! Don't know what went wrong there but no photo. Try again...

[Gizzit]

Nice looking scoots !!

They look like a good, easy size to maneuver. How do they do on the open road ?

From what I've read about SYM, they make very good machinery. Apparently they are well designed, well engineered, and built to last.

[Flange]

Yes to all that. The quality, both mechanical and finish-wise is top notch and there are some real nice touches that you often don't find even on top end sports bikes like angled valve stems, braided brake lines, HID lights and so on.

I live rural so a lot of my running is open road which the Sym handles with aplomb. They will cruise happily at an indicated 120 and I've seen 145 indicated which is good enough in this age of heavy policing and draconian punishment - even on the thou I don't tend to cruise much quicker than that. It's great to have that massive reserve of speed and acceleration that a modern sports bike gives, even if it's not used all that much, but on a scooter, well....

I do look at things like the T-Max and the 650 Burgman and think that it would be nice to have the extra horsepower, and probably if the scooter was my only bike I would consider something bigger. But all of those bigger scooters also carry quite a bit more weight so I'm not sure just how much difference there would be in performance. Certainly the 650 would have more top end, but it would be interesting to run against one just to see what the real-world difference is.

Cheers
Flange

[NZscoot]

I'm back to square one regarding the air filter. Factory gives best performance/economy. I haven't had time to make the bigger mesh one yet. I like your exhaust mods. I think it would look mean on the Citycom.

[MarkH]

I do look at things like the T-Max and the 650 Burgman and think that it would be nice to have the extra horsepower, and probably if the scooter was my only bike I would consider something bigger. But all of those bigger scooters also carry quite a bit more weight so I'm not sure just how much difference there would be in performance. Certainly the 650 would have more top end, but it would be interesting to run against one just to see what the real-world difference is.

My 400 does OK, but the 650 not only has more power and a top speed of around 165kph actual (measured by GPS) but also it has a computer controlled CVT instead of centrifugal CVT. This means that it has a 'power' setting where it will accelerate pretty darned well. The 650 also has the engine & exhaust bolted to the frame, not the swing arm - for proper 'motorcycle like' suspension.

But yeah - weight . . . The 650 has plenty of it. My 400 has a dry weight of 199kg and the 650 has about 70kg more. TBH my 400 doesn't feel all that heavy - I think the low CoG of the scooter makes it much easier to throw 199kg around.


You don't have a 3rd lightweight exhaust lying around do you? I would love to drop the unsprung weight of the burgy.

[Flange]

My 400 does OK, but the 650 not only has more power and a top speed of around 165kph actual (measured by GPS) but also it has a computer controlled CVT instead of centrifugal CVT. This means that it has a 'power' setting where it will accelerate pretty darned well. The 650 also has the engine & exhaust bolted to the frame, not the swing arm - for proper 'motorcycle like' suspension.

But yeah - weight . . . The 650 has plenty of it. My 400 has a dry weight of 199kg and the 650 has about 70kg more. TBH my 400 doesn't feel all that heavy - I think the low CoG of the scooter makes it much easier to throw 199kg around.


You don't have a 3rd lightweight exhaust lying around do you? I would love to drop the unsprung weight of the burgy.

You've raised a few good points there Mark. The computer controlled CVT does raise interesting possibilities like Power/Economy settings, but of the various automatic vehicles I've used which have this sort of option, once I've got past the "I'm a Kiwi Male" stage, I tend to leave them in "normal" and let the gearbox get on with the job. The best example of this was a Mitsi Diamante three litre MIVEC with tiptronic transmission which we used to own. For a couple of weeks it was fun playing with the tiptronic particularly when coupled to such a potent motor, but once the novelty wore off it just got left in full auto and the complexity became irrelevant.

The plain old vanilla CVT in the SYM is immaculately behaved - it clutches off the line nicely, revs go to what I assume is maximum torque and then stay there. On the over-run the transmission maintains a nice level of engine braking. For my money, I would happily trade the ability to influence how the gearbox works for simplicity and light weight.

As for separating the engine/trans from the swingarm, yes, in the purist sense this is quite desirable. The holy grail of suspension design is to absolutely minimise unsprung weight. If we plonk say 40kg of engine & transmission onto the swingarm, we are doing terrible things to the unsprung weight but if we take the seat unit off the Sym and look at how the engine/trans is mounted we find that yes, while the engine/trans/swingarm/exhaust are all one unit, the pivot point for the whole gubbins is placed so as to (I guess) put roughly half of the combined weight forward of the pivot point and roughly half behind. So while the likes of the 650 Burg and the 500 TMax have no engine weight bearing directly on the swingarm, they also don't have any of the swingarm/rear wheel/rear brake assembly weight counterbalanced in any way. Maybe, the basic scooter setup is not such a bad system providing the balance factor is right. The basic scooter setup does have more mass to be set in motion and then stopped when the rear wheel encounters a bump, but a well balanced scooter setup is at least counter-balanced which the 650 Burg or TMax aren't.

As for a third lightweight can, well sorry Dude I don't, but the 03 can which is now on Jocelyn's scoot came from Trademe for the princely sum of $35 delivered. Probably most GSX-R1000s have had an aftermarket can fitted, so there must be hundreds of those lovely titanium cans loitering in dark corners around the country. If you manage to get your hands on one I would be real happy to help you fit it.

Cheers
Flange

[Flange]

ps - the non-titanium Suzuki cans such as those fitted to the SV1000 or Bandit are considerably heavier than the titanium jobbies. If you are thinking of a conversion, make sure that it's a titanium can that you put on, preferably the shorter 01/02 can.

[MarkH]

You've raised a few good points there Mark. The computer controlled CVT does raise interesting possibilities like Power/Economy settings, but of the various automatic vehicles I've used which have this sort of option, once I've got past the "I'm a Kiwi Male" stage, I tend to leave them in "normal" and let the gearbox get on with the job. The best example of this was a Mitsi Diamante three litre MIVEC with tiptronic transmission which we used to own. For a couple of weeks it was fun playing with the tiptronic particularly when coupled to such a potent motor, but once the novelty wore off it just got left in full auto and the complexity became irrelevant.

A while back I was talking to Balu - he has an '08 Burgman 650 Exec. He told me that the only time the manual selection thingy did anything useful for him was when he was cruising and in manual he could put it in 'overdrive' i.e set a higher gear ratio than would normally be used. On the other hand the power setting is actually useful for a quick take off from the lights, especially if you can get a good launch and embarrass a 'real' bike.

If only the 650 didn't weigh about the same as a baby elephant . . .

Oh well, my 400 now has a new WoF and 2 new tyres and is ready for a nice ride down to Waiouru on Friday. I hope it doesn't get cold in Waiouru since I'll be in a tent for a couple of nights. I better wear some thermals underneath and some leathers over top.

[Flange]

Well, I guess even Ducati's MotoGP team are constantly ironing out bugs so maybe I shouldn't feel too despondent that my flash GSX-R can tried to fall apart.

It wasn't really too much of a surprise given the amount of muffler overhanging past the top mounting bracket and I did have a mod planned to cater for the day.

The first photo shows the way that the aluminium sleeve cracked and tore around the top bracket. The aluminium sleeve is very thin indeed and so required a bit of clever welding by Jimmy Steadman to whom my thanks go to yet again.

Next we made up an inverted T bracket to support the muffler from below using one of the mounting points from the OEM muffler, then secured the muffler to the bracket using a couple of large stainless steel hose clamps. While we were at it we made up a second bracket to fit to Jocelyn's scooter, just to make sure that the problem doesn't repeat there.

If this doesn't do the job, then there's always a third OEM mounting point on the swingarm below the front of the muffler. It would be easy to make up another inverted T bracket to go there.

21,000km now and the first factory part has required replacement - a rear wheel bearing was getting a bit grumbly so the guys at Whakatane Motorcycles took the initiative and replaced it while fitting a nice new set of tyres. I'm still on the original drive belt with no undue wear showing to either the belt or the pulleys.

This was my fourth rear and third front tyre. The Dunlop Scootline's gave me 9,000km, about 50% more than either the OEM Maxxis or the Conti Twist. The Dunlops also handled very well until the last thousand or so KM at which point they became flattened off to the point that the scooter was getting quite hard to tip in, and was forever trying to run wide coming out of corners. I was really keen to stick with Dunlops but could only get a front so the rear is now a Metzler ME7-Teen - oh joy, who thinks up these fucking names ? It does handle very nicely though.

Jocelyn and I are off to the South Island on Saturday, riding down with a group from Underwood & Wilkins en route to the Burt Munro. Two weeks cruisin' the south should be a treat.

Cheers
Flange

[The Baron]

Hi Flange.
My wife and I do enjoy your updates so keep them coming.
Have a great trip to the Burt Munroe.

[Flange]

Hi Flange.
My wife and I do enjoy your updates so keep them coming.
Have a great trip to the Burt Munroe.

Cheers for that Mate, will do both.

Our sub set of the Underwood and Wilkins group will be passing through Masterton on Sunday so watch for a red VTR, a red Buell, a VFR and the two mighty SYMs - give us a wave if you see us.

How's Mrs Baron's biking experience going ?

[NZscoot]

This was my fourth rear and third front tyre. The Dunlop Scootline's gave me 9,000km, about 50% more than either the OEM Maxxis or the Conti Twist. The Dunlops also handled very well until the last thousand or so KM at which point they became flattened off to the point that the scooter was getting quite hard to tip in, and was forever trying to run wide coming out of corners. I was really keen to stick with Dunlops but could only get a front so the rear is now a Metzler ME7-Teen - oh joy, who thinks up these fucking names ? It does handle very nicely though.

Jocelyn and I are off to the South Island on Saturday, riding down with a group from Underwood & Wilkins en route to the Burt Munro. Two weeks cruisin' the south should be a treat.

Cheers
Flange

Boy that GTS is heavy on tyres. I have 12000k's on the OEM Maxxis tyres on my SYM Citycom now and they had 3mm+ still at the last WOF 2 weeks ago.
Enjoy your south island trip. I can tell you that today is one beautiful day for scooting on the south island. Actually the last few weekends we have had some pretty awesome scooting weather. I did a 630km trip on the Saturday of two weekends ago and did both the Arthur's and Lewis Passes up to Punakaiki the Saturday before that. Good luck with your trip.

[Flange]

Well the South Island trip is done and dusted, we're both back at work with only the Mastercard payment to look forward to. It was an awesome trip with a great bunch of people. Special thanks to the organiser John Jones from Underwood & Wilkins and his good lady Roz - their arrangement and leadership were first rate.

And how did the scooters go ? Bloody well really. All up we covered about 4000km in just under two weeks with no mechanical woes at all. We did encounter two problems, one of them sort of unavoidable (some punctures), the other the result of bad planning really. In a previous post I commented on fitting new tyres to my bike before heading south. The rear tyre was a Metzler which performed OK but which was actually the wrong size. Standard is a 130/70-13 while the Metzler which arrived was a 130/60-13. By the time it arrived it was too late to do anything about it so we had no option but to use it. The lower profile tyre gives a harder ride but we can hack that. The real problem is that a lower profile effectively lowers the overall gearing of the bike which means that the motor is spinning faster at 100km/hr than it should. This was compounded by my wish to see how much life I could get out of the drive belt. A worn drive belt also effectively lowers the overall gearing so the cumulative effect of the lower profile tyre and the worn drive belt was that at 100km/hr my scoot was spinning at about 6,500rpm vs the 5,800rpm for Jocelyn's. Running locally this is not too much of a problem but for extended running like we did down south, the poor little sucker felt like it was revving it's nuts off all the time, particularly when it became necessary to defend the honour of the scooter brigade and up the pace a bit.

The group were as stated a great bunch of people but I could see that a few were a little, shall we say "amused" at the concept of scooters going with bikes on a trip that long. Being a gypsy tour we didn't ride in convoy, rather we all knew where to meet at night and how we got there was up to the individuals. That we found ourselves in a constant game of leapfrog with others from the group; and given that we were seldom last in at night, indicated that in real world terms the scooters toured at a pretty similar pace to the various bikes. By the time we left the group everybody seemed to have accepted the scooters pretty well.

So, what would I do differently next time ? First, I will take a tyre pando in addition to the push plug kit which I had. Jocelyn got a stone puncture 40km out the back of Masterton on Route 52. Because the tyre was flat I couldn't find the hole to put a plug into so we ended up riding it flat for 21km to the nearest "civilisation" - Eketahuna. There's not many towns I haven't been to but Eketahuna is one of them and shoot, I didn't even know if there was a petrol station there let alone one which would be open on Sunday afternoon. As it transpired there was a petrol station and it was open, but would you believe that it did not have a tyre pump ? Just to add insult to injury there is a beautiful Firestone depot right next door to the petrol station but you guessed it, Sunday afternoon, nobody home. The guy at G.A.S. was very helpful and eventually he did find a pando which I bought and was just about to put into the tyre when a staff member rolled up at the Firestone depot to put something away. He very kindly ran out an air hose for us, the hole was found and plugged and we were away again. So big ups to the man from Firestone Eketahuna and the man from G.A.S Eketahuna, both of them kind and helpful men.

I was mightily impressed that I was able to ride the scoot with no air at all in the rear tyre, for 21km at about 70km/hr without the tyre flying off the rim or suffering terminal damage. Not only that, but with a push plug repair it got us down to Blenheim where we got it repaired properly with a vulcanised patch, and then went on to cover another 3,500km. The OEM Maxxis tyres took a huge step up in my estimation on this trip !

Next time I will put a bit of slime into the tyres in the hope that this will prevent leaks from developing.

And I will never set off on a major trip with a worn drive belt and an undersized tyre ! Both bikes need a new rear tyre and I'm doing my best to find a tyre with a higher profile than standard, either a 130/80-13 or a 140/70-13. The Syms have plenty of power to pull a higher final gearing and for long distance work, higher gearing would allow either more relaxed cruising or higher speed cruising as desired.

Since returning I've done a fair bit of maintenance on the bikes which I will detail in a later post.

Cheers
Flange